StephanKinsella.com

Libertarian Answer Man: Self-ownership for slaves and Crusoe; and Yiannopoulos on Accurate Analysis and the term “Property”; Mises distinguishing between juristic and economic categories of “ownership”

by Stephan Kinsella on April 3, 2021

KOL275 | Did You Know Crypto Podcast, Ep. 54: You Don’t Own Your Bitcoin
KOL274 | Nobody Owns Bitcoin (PFS 2019) ), or in metap
KOL395 | Selling Does Not Imply Ownership, and Vice-Versa: A Dissection (PFS 2022)
The “If you own something, that implies that you can sell it; if you sell something, that implies you must own it first” Fallacies

From X:

Libertarian Answer Man, What Sayest Thou?

“Crusoe owns nothing on his island, as there is no legal order. Does this include his body?

He can control and use his body, but he doesn’t own it. Ownership is a legal relationship between an actor and a resource, that is recognized and respected by others in society. If there is no society or legal system, there are no norms or rules or rights.

Also: Does a slave, in a legal order that supports slavery, no longer own his body?

The master is the legal owner, but the slave is the natural or rightful owner. We have to distinguish possession or control, from ownership. And we have to distinguish positive law from just law. As Mises wrote: [continue reading…]

{ 11 comments }

KOL329 | Lift Talks #1 With Kinsella & Sammeroff

by Stephan Kinsella on April 2, 2021

Kinsella on Liberty Podcast, Episode 329.

Lift Talks #1 —Telluride March 2021 — With Kinsella & Sammeroff.

Two libertarian blokes on a ski vacation. Filmed Tuesday March 30, 2021, Telluride Ski Resort.

Grok summary shownotes: In the “Lift Talks” episode recorded in Telluride, Colorado, Stephan Kinsella and Anthony Sammeroff deliver a dynamic conversation while riding ski lifts, starting with humorous reflections on their trip [0:00-9:00]. They discuss their skiing adventures, hot springs visits, and encounters with COVID-19 mask policies, including a tense plane incident involving a dropped tissue and a stewardess enforcing federal mask laws [3:46-5:57]. Their libertarian perspective shines through as they mock passive-aggressive mask enforcers and recount a refreshing interaction with a store clerk who opposed mask mandates [6:09-7:06]. The hosts also share personal stories, like Sammeroff’s flirtatious banter about a vegan woman and a chance meeting with a friend from a yoga retreat, highlighting cultural differences between American and European directness [7:12-8:27].

The conversation deepens as they explore libertarian philosophy and critique political ideologies [21:11-36:29]. They debate the right’s realism versus the left’s egalitarianism, asserting that libertarians provide intellectual foundations often stolen by conservatives [21:17-22:28]. A discussion with guest Peggy around [44:02-48:46] reveals her partial alignment with libertarianism but concerns about policing without government, prompting Kinsella and Sammeroff to advocate for privatized security and critique public sector failures, like a case where police neglected rape victims [47:36-48:25]. The episode concludes with reflections on their friendship, Sammeroff’s newfound opportunities in America, and plans for future episodes, all infused with humor and philosophical insights [50:01-54:45].

Grok detailed shownotes and Transcript below.

[Update: Tom Woods and Antony discuss his travels across American in Ep. 1895 Traveling Through COVID America. Also mentioned in KOL462 | CouchStreams After Hours on Break the Cycle with Joshua Smith (2021).]

Part 2: KOL330 | Lift Talks #2 With Kinsella & Sammeroff

Cross-posted on Scottish Liberty podcast.

Bonus video:

Three day skiing video compilation telluride March 2021

Grok detailed shownotes

Bullet-Point Summary with Time Markers and Descriptions for 10-15 Minute Blocks

0:00-10:00: Introduction and Ski Trip Anecdotes
- Description: The episode opens with Stephan Kinsella and Anthony Sammeroff introducing their “Lift Talks” concept while riding a gondola in Telluride, Colorado. They share photos from their trip, including hot springs visits and skiing with hosts Peggy and David. The conversation is lighthearted, focusing on their skiing experiences and humorous takes on mask enforcement.
- Summary: The hosts discuss their first two days skiing, including a visit to Orvis Hot Springs and a funny incident where Sammeroff struggled with the COVID-19 vaccine’s effects [2:00-2:12]. They recount a plane incident where a couple and stewardess chided Sammeroff for not wearing his mask properly [3:46-5:04], reflecting their libertarian disdain for mandates. They also mention meeting a store clerk who opposed masks, revealing a shared skepticism [6:09-7:06].
10:01-20:00: Libertarian Banter and Cultural Observations
- Description: The hosts continue their lift ride, joking about their skiing skills, privilege, and cultural differences between Americans and Europeans. They touch on libertarian figures like Jeffrey Tucker and share stories from hot springs, including an encounter with a Native American man spouting spiritual beliefs.
- Summary: Sammeroff and Kinsella playfully debate their skiing prowess and privilege [10:00-10:26], with Sammeroff joking about needing a “privilege diet.” They critique American passive-aggressiveness compared to European directness [5:22-5:57] and recount a hot springs visit where a Native American man preached about rock and water [16:56-17:26]. The conversation briefly turns philosophical, questioning objective reality, but they pivot back to humor [18:19-18:30].
20:01-30:00: Political Philosophy and Right vs. Left Critique
- Description: The discussion shifts to political theory, with the hosts critiquing the right’s realism and the left’s egalitarianism. They argue that libertarians provide intellectual foundations for conservatives, who often dismiss them. They also share stories from their travels, including an Uber driver’s shift toward free-market ideas.
- Summary: Kinsella and Sammeroff challenge Hans-Hermann Hoppe’s view that the right is more realistic, arguing that conservatives co-opt libertarian ideas without gratitude [21:17-22:28]. They discuss an Uber driver in Auburn who moved from Democratic to free-market sympathies after researching Trump [39:26-40:10]. The hosts also mention Oprah’s bridge in Telluride, mocking its extravagance [20:51-21:03].
30:01-40:00: Libertarian Theory and Legal Philosophy
- Description: The conversation deepens into the distinctions between political philosophy, political theory, and legal theory. They explore libertarianism as a normative framework for law and economics, contrasting it with Marxist or conservative approaches. The hosts also plan a catered dinner and discuss mask preferences with the chef.
- Summary: Kinsella explains libertarianism as a normative political philosophy that argues for what law should be, distinguishing it from descriptive legal theory [33:04-36:29]. They critique political economy’s historical focus on state-run economies versus modern economics’ broader scope [37:31-38:01]. The hosts mention a chef asking about mask preferences, planning to gauge public sentiment on mandates [27:36-28:03].
40:01-50:00: Guest Appearance and Libertarian Solutions
- Description: Guest Peggy joins the lift talk, expressing cautious support for libertarianism but raising concerns about policing without government. The hosts advocate for privatized security and critique public police failures. They also share lighthearted moments, like joking about a feminist T-shirt.
- Summary: Peggy agrees with less government but questions how to handle crime without police [44:02-45:12]. Kinsella and Sammeroff argue that private security would be more accountable, citing a case where police failed rape victims due to no legal obligation to protect [47:36-48:25]. They joke about a T-shirt reading “She Wants the Destruction of Patriarchy” [42:28-42:40].
50:01-55:23: Reflections and Closing
- Description: The episode wraps up with reflections on their friendship, Sammeroff’s opportunities in America, and plans for future episodes. They share clips of skiing and dinner party photos, maintaining a humorous and optimistic tone.
- Summary: Sammeroff credits Kinsella for his newfound opportunities, including speaking engagements and book deals, contrasting this with his past in Scotland [51:41-53:50]. They joke about Kinsella’s past drinking and his book “Against Intellectual Property” [50:43-51:15]. The episode ends with a call for feedback on “Lift Talks” and photos from a beef Wellington dinner [54:39-55:16].

This summary captures the episode’s blend of humor, personal anecdotes, and libertarian philosophy, segmented into digestible blocks for show notes.

Transcript

all right this is stefan kinsella and anthony summeroff will be joining me these are some

photographs of our trip to telluride our first day or two before we get to

this is the hot springs the orvis hot springs and ridgeway that we went to and this is uh

me and anthony on the left and me and anthony and david

and peggy are gracious hosts a few pictures taken on top of the

mountain me and anthony and then this is uh peggy and david and anthony

and here’s me afraid to go down a hyper mowgli black which i did not go down and here

we go this is uh the beginning of lift talks

with anthony summeroff and stephen gonzalo how are you doing there i think

excellent you’re looking forward to having a good lift talk on the left oh sure this has been like one of the best holidays

ever and we’re only on the second freaking day i know i know right i know right okay we’ll see

you on the left okay so this is we’re about to get on the gondola head up

about to get on the gondola they ask you to put this over your mouth and nose which is what [ __ ]

[Music]

nicely done that was just a majestic as a gazelle

all right how elegantly i can compensate for my errors in life ah peace and quiet okay this is tuesday

we skied yesterday and we’re on our second day starting off late starting off late because someone

couldn’t get out of bed someone’s recovering from the covet vaccine number two which all my libertarian friends warned me about

taking but i just didn’t listen yeah you should have injected that poison into your

bloodstream yeah and feeling the effects so this whole trip has turned into a kobe trip because all

you do is complain about covet and get us in trouble and almost get kicked off of dead airplanes yeah so i

guess we should introduce you into some of the characters that we’ve met do you want to sit here so that we

can both be in the frame and tell the story i’ll sit by you sweetie yeah you’ll get some nice views

this is such a great idea i love this show the samurai can sell the show so

yeah i mean in houston it was pretty good with the covert i mean most places you go to shop they ask you

for a mask i don’t usually put my mask on until i’m asked if someone asks me to put on the

mask they usually are quite polite they say excuse me sir do you have a mask and i or could you put a mask on and i

say yes i can do that for you and i say i could do it for them because i want them to know that i don’t believe in that

[ __ ] and that’s my little bit of civil disobedience but i never met that pro even though you

you’re telling me that houston’s a pretty blue city i never met the sarcastic

um overly polite massive aggressive progressive slash liberal i hate that

they stole her word but liberal [ __ ] smarmy

until i went to colorado

this is just a commercial break you keep talking long-winded story [Music] um let’s see what about the what about

the people on the plane yeah so you you tell that story because i saw that story better than i did oh

yeah so we were flying to telluride from denver on a little plane and we were sitting together behind us was a

couple but before you go on to the couple the air host stats announced please ladies and gentlemen the mask

must be over your mouth and nose and she gave me a direct look because my mask was up to here but i really want to tell these people

do you think that i’m not wearing it over my nose just to be an obtuse [ __ ] because i know i am an obtuse

[ __ ] but that’s not why i’m not wearing it over my nose i’m not wearing it over my nose because i like to freaking breathe air

and it just doesn’t it feels really bad breathing through the mask so anyway the fabric you go on and so

and so uh the the people behind him he dropped his tissue and it flies to fall and they say excuse me sir did you

drop your tissue which wasn’t the real question because they they knew he dropped this tissue they wanted to like

chide him for contaminating the world with his with his uh tissue and then they said

and could you please put your mask up like that was a whole it was a ruse to yeah and then the stewardess comes over

and she’s like sir i’ve asked you three times it is a federal law and if i have to report you to the

captain you could be banned from all future flights presumably on key lime bum [ __ ] air what

the [ __ ] and the only you only need to fly one more time in your life

on thursday when we go home such a maverick getting into trouble from the aeros but yeah the funny thing is the guy was

so overly friendly and smarmy when he was like excuse me sir i think you dropped your

tissue but what like this is a difference in culture between americans and europeans

because i was in the autobahn in germany and i was playing something

out of my phone and the german lady was just like excuse me sir could you put headphones on and

she just said exactly what she meant so if it was in europe that guy would have been like excuse me sir your

handkerchief is bothering us can you please pick us up pick it off the floor why do you [ __ ] have to be so

passive aggressive and it was girlfriend his girlfriend as well she didn’t say play she was just

like oh yeah and put your mask up over your nose go suck a dick lady anything to add

what were you talking about yeah

uh i guess i agree but i’m just i’m just complying oh then we met this cute chick at the targaryen oh yeah she was fine

yeah it was this babe i came in without my mask she did she was kind of like a rock chick with tattoos on her neck and

we didn’t even know she had piercings on stefan asked her to take her mask down so we could see her face

i i mentioned that i mentioned something about masks and she more or less told us that she didn’t give a [ __ ] and she thought it was harsh [ __ ] yeah

it hides people’s faces so they can’t see each other yeah she’s like what did she say it hides

people’s faces so they can’t see each other and she said hopefully it’s going to be lifted shortly yeah she thinks telluride

or colorado or something are there or the store owner is going to say and then kinsella said well we can’t

we’ve not seen your face you should take your mask down and she did and she had tons of piercings and i never even knew

yeah it was just as well she had her mask up she might have scared which means she’s probably a democrat but yet she’s sound on mass policy anyway

that’s a rare company she’s a unicorn she’s a democrat and yeah i’d still fill her up full of babies but then we went to

dinner with lindsay his friend lindsey from a yoga retreat in mexico yeah as one does in her

boyfriend her name from venezuela and she happens to know this chick from uh photography and she informed anthony

that sorry sadly she has a boyfriend sadly and i said well it doesn’t really

since she’s vegan it doesn’t really count as cheap yeah because you’re vegetarian and you could be you can be vegan it’s like a network it

doesn’t really count and besides i have superior genes yeah

now the thing is there’s enough of a chain of connection that lindsay could watch this and pass it on to the piercing girl but i don’t really care

anyway it’s really interesting i should tell you this i think the only person i met in

colorado on my travels was this girl lindsay right and i invited her to the libertarian

meetup i had in denver thinking well she lives in colorado maybe she’s a stone’s throw a distance

and she’s like ah that’s pretty far from where i live i don’t think i’ll make it and then i went on her facebook profile and i saw that she lived in telly ride

and i sent her a whatsapp like gtfo mates do you seriously live in telly right

that’s where we’re going skating she’s like no wait what are the chances of that okay we’re coming up to sofia

station we need to get off here let’s get sophia i mean i don’t know it means a bad actress and godfather

we’re off the lift we’re about to ski for the day hello let’s see keyboard start

i’m impressed at how much better i am today than yesterday yeah me too okay we’re on the first

official lift of our live talk adventure lift 10. and uh i think we should call this like

libertarians on the left libertarians on the left and not on the left get it yeah

the the new the new leftist libertarians oh he left this lift what does take a left mean is that

like getting higher like smoking no it means turn left on the road no take a left

take a lift i’ve never heard that marley i let my mind take a left maybe say oh

maybe his mind went up because he got high yeah what about your left for the day we can call this show

you’re take left talks you’re left for the day like you’re left out lift lift out in

the cold left over that is true

in the cold i have a surprise little t-boy here could ski so well for a scotsman for a middle-class

scotsman i know you’re better as well who’s better do you think

i don’t know because it’s hard to tell your technique might be better because you’ve got more lessons yeah i need our independent tradition

who’s pre whose privilege is better i think you’re privileged to spencer yeah

yeah i kind of think i have about 2.7 too much privilege i want to trim a little bit off i need to go on a

privileged diet i’m working on a belly

speaking of speaking of bellies i met stefan’s very lovely very beautiful

wife do you know that a lot of people have never met her jesus city exists she keeps so low profile

okay but speaking of belly social justice for your child oh he’s just he’s just a little

woke in a pleasant way but better than being an all-right [ __ ] yes i would say on the scheme of things

but you still let the team down okay but i’m gonna give you a scottish accent you tell me who it is get in my belly get in my

belly yeah you’d do a good magmar’s impression i’d do a good impression of someone

doing an impression oh look this is proof that the irish and

the scots can get along after all but you’re not really a irish just like [ __ ] off

you bastards you get to have a [ __ ] heritage we can’t have one no what do you want me to trace my

heritage back to abraham lincoln in europe no one ever says they’re

she’s moving the camera well they still hear your voice

she had to build a multi-million dollar bridge to get to her house for the whole community’s benefit she said okay yeah

i mean just imagine how many starving children in africa i wonder if oprah’s do you think oprah skis or she just like

has a house in the mountains like i’m sure she invites her skiing

buddies over he doesn’t look like a skier though you gotta admit yeah she’s a little bit heavy around the

belly area but you don’t want to talk so hey i started when i was kidding

you were skidding yeah i was skinny skinny as [ __ ] let’s see after i was about 37. insert photographic

evidence to video all right i thought you were just like boned i didn’t think you were actually a big house

now that you’ve told me that you put on the way i know i’m a little feller like you it’s due to your weak character

i know due to brainwashing from the state which i’ve succumbed to i actually put on 11 pounds since coming to eastern

texas but it was a little bit crikey that’s almost half a stone i know but i don’t want to take all of

it off i only want to take six pounds off just grow your love muscle i got a

little bit of a belly actually you can see yeah you look you look like a little buddha symbol or something a little bit

well it’s not times by someone to take six times off okay lift talk segment three or whatever

signing off all right lift uh left hand the second time we’re uh

that was pretty good what did you think about that run i really enjoyed it nice and flat it’s fast slightly icy but

not too bad right yeah i’m eating a granola bar why don’t you take take it away until like

because i had two muffins already that’s enough for my big muffin why don’t you chat to the audience while

i eat oh they might like to see you eat all right anybody like to see me

what you can find on is this going to be on your on your podcast what is this spot it was scottish

liberty there was a scottish puberty i’ve got a lot of different professions

you can find me at www.beak.com

uh well unfortunately i’ve seen you naked twice already [ __ ] hot springs someone forgot his

bathing suit doesn’t wear a mask anywhere i’ll put it that way

here’s the thing what’s the thing speaking of things you didn’t need to see my junk if you

weren’t looking at my junk you mean this is easy to miss

yeah but not in a gay week [Music]

my butt cheek touched his knee and the jacuzzi but not in a gateway it was just his

friends he was getting in and i said dude boundaries

i totally thought it was i thought it was a hairy porpoise swimming by like it can’t be can’t be in a hot tub

no it’s gotta be something those aren’t pillows

all right so anyway we’re gonna we haven’t wrecked one time we haven’t wrecked at all i’ve not fallen over even once i’ve almost

wrecked but anyway what about lift thoughts how are we getting lifting people on

this talk and left in their lives well i just wanted to talk about the fact that

when you get near the left they sometimes ask you to fill this up over your nose today’s always a good

[ __ ] guy i’ll look like are you [ __ ] or something like i actually looked at him

like that all right i think he knew but the thing is you’re nowhere near

anyone and the thing is everyone knows it’s [ __ ] they’re just do it because their boss

said and their bosses just do it because their boss said and it won’t where is people’s line do

people actually have a line anymore where they say their total state is sheeple

so tell them about our adventure on sunday so we flew in sunday from denver no yeah after spending saturday night

there and seeing some old buddies i saw karen and harlow and my old buddy chris simoneau and he saw some other people there’s a

different buddies they were really cool we couldn’t we can order because the the grouping was not appropriate for logistical reasons

but anyway so we flew in and he he happened to know this girl from from

a mexican yoga retreat no i’m not making this up and she lives in telluride so her and her boyfriend

met us and they took us to these hot springs and and uh well they took us to uray first which is where gulf gulch is

that was cool yeah and we had some really unhealthy mexican food it was great

and then we went to uh ridgeway went to the orvis hot springs which is clothing optional which you took

advantage of too it was very optional for me oh tell about that it was optional in the sense that it’s

an option that i didn’t take the steam tell about the steam room with the rocks in the water the sauna and who was this native

american guy that was like we used to pray we used to give thanks

to rock and water then the white man came and he made us give thanks to god

but we used to give thanks to rock and water because we’re made of rock and water yeah he started listing off the

elements of stone is made of potassium and that’s what our rock bodies are made of so we

give thanks to stone and water and he wanted to educate us on the ways

of the ancients and it was just a bunch of my superstitious religious [ __ ]

is better than your superstitious people i like that skinny topless chick sitting down beneath us he was going like

i wonder if it’s better to pay someone to find your energy or to find your energy yourself i mean i

was in a hot of freaking democrats let’s face it it was worse than that these were like they were sort of like

the cast of a show that is yeah this is a new age

retreat or something [Laughter]

since we’ve touched upon religious issues definitely we need to bank for a topic our discussion on

as object how certain can you be the objective reality is objective

reality as certain as one can be you can have that as certain as possible you can have that whole conversation

it goes to 11 put it that way it goes to 11. i’m not even going to do this we’re

gonna have to have a frothy discussion a proper lengthy discussion these are not things matters that can be

solved in weird sound bites okay here’s what’s funny when i pass someone on the left like this like imagine that’s a

person right when they get here you say what state are you from and they feel compelled to answer

they’ll go ah alabama and then they’re like wait were we having that conversation and

that granola bar was really freaking good i wish i had it i thought you were against grains i’m not a fan of greens but i’m hungry

and we’re on the left just walking [ __ ] contradiction aren’t you well it would be better if i packed some bananas i agree but

i thought you were packing a banana well you’re the one who had a good wood cat i

did not have a good look at it i had a bad look at it why did you keep on going on and on about my jug

i’m a fan of jeffrey tucker and also mark thornton and also david gordon

sorry what we say

oh can you harmonize try to harmonize also try to harmonize with me

i don’t think he did i’ll try a different pitch oh

that sucks i am not picking up good vibrations i’m thinking of a good vibration sunset

let me do a good time i know this one

all right until the next lift lift stay lifted like his shoes all right we’re halfway

down from lift 10 sunshine express and why don’t you tell us what this is

this is oprah’s bridge which she had commissioned and built she’d think that she had

better things to spend her fortunes on than a bridge but seemingly not thank you oprah

for this bridge of peace okay we were talking about the like hops idea

that the right is realistic about recognizing hierarchies and differences and authority figures

naturally and the left is egalitarian and you think it’s horseshit well i mean i don’t think they’re they’re

right as realist or anything like that they’re just they’re mostly defined by what they

don’t like throughout history they just change their position and that’s not a way to be

in the world and that’s not a way to and that’s why they lose because look they’re not coherent

they’re not a cohort yeah throughout history who has actually written the political

philosophy there’s maybe about a dozen

hardcore right-wing intellectuals most of the basis for their philosophy

has been written by libertarians who they steal ideas from and then [ __ ]

all over how did they treat iron rand they shot and pissed all over her after stealing

her they did shot on her and how did they treat murray rothbard they shattered pissed all over him after

stealing his ideas they show no gratitude whatsoever

to libertarians for actually doing their thinking for them the left or right when they say okay

well if pop is right when he says that the right are realists

then the left to right when they say that they’re right or anti-intellectual they are anti-intellectual they’ve

always been anti-intellectual and i agree and so okay

basically what was saying is people like hoppa have a soft spot for the right and they create all sorts there is a

reason that they’re they libertarians have more in common with the conservatives today but not under

push okay we gotta get on we have all these wacky theories for why the right is better than the left but

they hate you they think that you’re they’re your their [ __ ] little cousin like rudrak

from the film dirty rotten sponge featuring steve martin if you’ve not seen it watch it bye well

i might as well film this here we go go to the right

okay we made it

all right for now oh that was a good run that was good right nice and icy

like i like my woman you like your woman i see i always say a girl who can’t back

chat in all that i made that up myself was what’s blackjack it means like sassy a little bit oh back

talk she used to be clever yeah if a girl isn’t clever she’s just how do i see this possibly

correctly let’s see her functions are limited [Laughter]

i i object to that on behalf of all women whatever gender are you seeing

[Music] at least you have more functions

i was watching tom woods play game of chess with david damn what’s that guy’s name steel

ramsey steel great guy david ramsey steel i was sick yeah you’re not a fan

i was sitting on the couch over in alabama at the lisa’s institute and i overheard this voice and i was like

you are a dead ringer for someone i can’t think who where are you from means like well birmingham that’s a long story short

oh brimmie don’t they say a broomy over there yeah they do actually and i was like eventually i was like

there’s this guy someone i i said another name ramsay steel and he’s like oh that’s funny because

i’m david ramsey still i was like yeah i’ve read some of your book from marks to missus so we got in a chat

anyway him and tom woods were playing chess and tom wins is brilliant to play chess

he almost beat he he

um walter block was an inches of losing to tom woods in a game

of chess and top and walter williams clawed it back at the last moment

but that’s to be expected because it was just walter defending the undefendable

exactly what i was thinking anyway i was just remarking to steph and it’s funny how the horse

is the night and chest because i always thought that it

was the person riding the horse that was that sounds like a david gordon joke for some reason

but i i always thought it was the the person writing the first that was the night

but i didn’t know this was the roman emperor which had a horse for a cemetery but

apparently no a horse is a high ranking member of the feudal system

so you learn something every day well we know that some of their cousins are asses so you know that would make sense

i just sat on the couch and had a chat to channel

well it’s the mountain’s empty today right i think that’s why we have it to ourselves we’re like kings

yeah we’re taking our privilege king canute did he ever get this tied to go back now

the question is can we ever get the tide of statism to go back or is that just like

being king canoe i’ll tell you something interesting though so tonight we’re having what i said wasn’t interesting no but my head’s on this

topic so tonight we’re having this catered dinner and the chef asked me uh

when we come over to cook would you would you prefer us to wear a mask or not like he wanted us to give him the lead

and we said we don’t give a damn anyway so i’m going to ask him tonight what percentage

what’s that what answer is he getting like what percentage of people say they don’t care which because that’ll be a good panel on the

streets so you’re gonna have to tune into the next edition of left talks to find out what he said

yeah because we’re approaching a hill which might be the terminal station but it’s not so i’m gonna tell you

well yeah so stefan being the baller that he has just arranged to have a chef come over

and cook for us well i’m paying back my host for keeping us for free that’s the idea that’s my that’s my way

of paying them how am i paying the back i’m not doing judge she gave them a book that’s true we brought them some

chocolate well you’re you’re you’re giving them free medical advice i’m going to send

them a thank you card free diet advice yeah

my friends are nice nice normal republicans that’s what you want that’s you want to

go on vacation with nice normal republicans you’re good you just i don’t know why you’ve got

such a border

not compared to lee oh yeah lee new friend leah gloaty no

but you just didn’t just

all right i gotta pause my hands getting too cold we’ll pick this up there we go we’re on left one the little chandler

end of the last left yeah sorry i’m not really good at fitting ideas into short spaces i always

think that in order to give a full picture of an idea you really need to i know like that lady done she’s like

okay can you explain bitcoin to me in two minutes i said probably not

i mean judging by your apparent technical abilities and my ability to summarize all this

stuff you’re not really doing things in lay person’s terms is not really your struggle well i

i didn’t think you’d have the cons time the time attention span to listen long enough for

me to slowly explain it so i was compressing but anyway my mouth is so

cold where it’s like yeah i think sigmarcic

oh no no no it was asymptote asymptotic i said it approaches the line

asymptotically and they’re like what’s that i said you know math like i never heard that only that’s the opposite of exponential

that’s what i told him well i don’t think it helped i i finally explained that

what other words do you use uh praxeology just keep on resting there

better try to explain it uh my mouth is so frozen

um uh what big words heterogeneous um

uh ella mercenary i like to use that one oh i like this

yeah l-e-e with a little exit mark m-o-s-y-n-a-r-y

that’s in case you want to look it up in the dictionary and find out what it means it means terrible how many big words do

you actually know of your accounting no probably more than average but um

i like to say something like the average person is a [ __ ] idiot so you could basically discount most of

those i like these words the opposite way say something like uh like like i just swam in the pool oh

that swim was so innovating innervate means a sappy of strength

but it sounds like you’re energized yeah no one even knows they don’t know the words they’re like yeah i feel innervated too

like really do you i tricked you i tricked you into

misusing a word wrongly i’ll i’ll like i’ll hold up on a can of gasoline and say is this slammable or

inflammable welcome to my berg trend welcome to my world we’re going to go up

the foe now we can go to guarano ranch whatever have a hot chocolate if you want that

wouldn’t be too bad because it’s kind of cold dude don’t waste out on me tomorrow will be a little warmer anyway i

don’t know it’s desolate here it’s just dead no wonder they’re closing it early they put all these freaking uh gondola

carriages around the fireplace in the center of mountain village so people can socially distance and sit by the fire in their little cabins

i kind of just want to infect everyone with the virus just to spite the people who are

destroying my life because of it [ __ ] it give it to everyone let god

sort them out i thought libertarians were not misanthropes well so a lot of libertarians are

wrestling throats tan my usual co-hosts myself confessed my son i’m gonna defend

him he was a good host all right i’m gonna stop say goodbye my mouth’s freezing over all right lift

four so we were talking yesterday like what’s the difference between political philosophy

political theory legal theory stuff libertarians do

so i think it’s an intersection of some of those right because it’s intersecting

so you said you had some thoughts on that well you asked

yeah because you’re talking about what the law ought to be ought to be so you need to

know some law which is why it’s political theory rather than legal theory

because yeah it would be something like legal

rather than what the law is what the structure of the law is correct as it starts correct see some

people say i’m good at these pedantic things like making distinctions between lots of different

things that’s really why some people like to read my stuff because i’m really [ __ ] pedantic and i split hairs um

so that’s a good question for me if i do say so myself i know i’m bad at

i don’t think i’m a very original thinker i think that i’m pretty good at presenting other people’s ideas i don’t

think that it’s better to be right than original right yeah it’s better to do something well this hike it’s better to do something

well then be to do something original i think occasionally new arguments but it’s not my strong

point this is why where we’re going to go after garado branch

go hang out with the sun what do you think that sounds great see but you know you wouldn’t call

libertarianism a political theory it’s a political philosophy so it is a self-political philosophy but

i think a political philosophy is more like yes it’s a certain view about the way

politics should be structured which is a view about logical theory as sorry you’re saying political

philosophy political philosophy is a field of study i would say it studies

it studies political systems so it’s not really political it’s studies ideal we’re very strong we’re

arguing normatively so we’re arguing normatively about what the law should be i just don’t know what to do when you’re arguing nor

okay when you’re arguing so you’re saying sorry i interrupted what’s your question no what

what’s the right word for it when you’re arguing normatively for what the political system

should be and what the law should be yeah you’re doing political philosophy philosophy when you’re arguing what the

law should be you’re maybe doing

political philosophy as well but you could say more even more you could invent a term

for it like just by shoving things together like legal moral philosophy

no no but legal moral philosophy would be a study of different views on what the law should be so i

talk about like i like i say i do i i do libertarian theory

i see you so that’s the best material i think that’s the best it’s really theorizing what the libertarian position but what

would the what would the what would be what would the correlative thing be for for a socialist or for

or for environmentalists or for a conservative would they be doing conservative legal

theory or conservative theory well i mean it depends what because what was marx do

it a mixture of a bunch of stuff yeah political philosophy sociology economics not very good

economics but he’s still doing economic he’s still basically understood

a lot of ricardo and smith and he could say exactly what he disagreed with when it came to regardless what i find

always interesting is how the word economics used to be called political economy

but it also had a slightly different school we think political economy sort

of encompassed political philosophy and political and economic sort of no political economy was saying

how a state should run the economy whereas economics has far greater boundaries i was just

studying economic phenomena yeah indeed so political economy it was more limited in scope

well maybe what we’re doing is libertarianism’s political economy because we’re saying what how the state should run the economy

economy because political economy is not normative so as soon as you bring in enormous

services you’re bringing in philosophy all right we gotta cut this short great

conversation by the way good talk thank you thank you internet tomboy

timer how’s that feeling i think i should nick

can’t go on under that all right that was a nice little break hi

it was a nice it was a nice too long break if you stop for too long you don’t want

to get back up i guess yeah i guess i have it backwards this time so anyway likes to stare off

wistfully into the distance and zone out yeah one of his habits my wifey says why don’t don’t do jessie

because we used to have a female friend named jessie who would do that staring she didn’t want you to do her because she was afraid that jesse

might be better in bed well i actually dated jesse because she was like all the more recent things

my wife’s good friend and roommate dude jesse did you do jesse i dated jesse

that’s all i’ll say and a gentleman never talks well i must not be a gentleman because i

love talking about sex

okay what about the uh the the uber driver and auburn the black chick who picked this up

yeah we had uh do you want to tell the story no you can we had a black taxi driver pick us up

she was getting into thomas seoul and walter williams she said she freaked out about trump when trump

got elected so she did her research on youtube and the more she found out the more she realized she was more

sympathetic to free market ideas and uh

she gave me her email address i’ll send her a link to a book i liked

and then asked her she thanked me and i said is there anything you want me to watch she didn’t reply

so i guess that’s the end of that she had this kind of complicated name like antonita or something like that

yeah she had a similar name to me anyway that’s where we’re gonna hit

today at the end we’re gonna go and do some sunbathing we think about that it looks like heaven

i like working i don’t like sunbathing we’re gonna sunbathe today and you’re

gonna like it whether you like it or not

all right we’re gonna go meet beat miss peggy in a second and ski with our buddies but either way it’s a beautiful day in the

neighborhood why do they always play africa by total when hold the line is clearly a superior

song yeah i don’t think they can answer you because this is a one-way conversation

all right later later that is what she said last night all right so we’re on the left and

you’re whining that you’re cold it’s a little bit cold today yeah it’s colder it’s about 12 degrees colder than

yesterday but tomorrow will be warm again so that’ll be just perfecto huh yeah i’ll probably get sunburned and

then i’ll have something else to wait about we’re gonna go meet miss peggy who’s a normie

she’s lovely that’s peggy peggy

anyway uh we’re going to do a hot tub adventures segment in our in our yeah in our lift

you up segment you can get a little bit of uh insight into the world for our

libertarian celebrities i watch said should i film some of the dinner party tonight that might be inappropriate

these people might not want to be associated with libertarians they might want to talk about they might

want to talk like conservatives about how it’s for people’s fault david this morning

david said and they work harder than other people and that’s why they’re rich

what did you say uh david said i’ve never met an anarchist before i

said well you’ve met three now because i brought one carpio here and and anthony we’re all three enterprise

capitals we’re growing we’re growing threat man better watch out yeah stop sucking the

deck of this state oh what’s that feminist t-shirt you said you liked oh yeah i want to get one that says she wants the destruction

of patriarchy

she was the d instruction of patriarchy that’s funny if someone wants if someone

wants to get a nice version of that t-shirt made for me i’ll gladly accept the gift i want to go down there that’s what i

want to do today i want to go chillax on the snow what you want to do

we could do it for a while all right okay now here’s a brief clip from the uber driver conversation in auburn

uh at the mises event a few weeks ago that we just mentioned in the previous lift talk club i’m gonna go back to the

50s yeah go back to the 50s but we were thriving so was it a slave mentality then no exactly

i haven’t fully turned republican yet but i’m on the verge well we’re libertarians actually so we’re like republican square but but

what you said was very open yeah yeah but i definitely i’m um breaking away from the

democratic party because at the end of the day they’re not serving you right they’re not thank you so much

okay and now back to our regularly scheduled lift talk where we join miss peggy our neighbor

and friend and host gracious host and lovely lady that’s all what’s even the part in that hey so uh

this is lift talk part x with special guest peggy hello

i can take my little mask off you’re gonna be on on the youtube oh yeah yeah i don’t know what do you

think about this libertarian stuff we keep yammering on about you guys are a little bit crazy but

generally i agree with it good crazy

i can’t get there on all of it okay well there’s hope left my child i’m already

there babe there’s no way back for me i know i’ve been handcapped since i was two months old

you’ve been what in capital anarcho capitalism again antarctica capitalists see this is

what we have it means libertarian middle-of-the-road right-wing conservatives don’t

understand their lexicon yeah but peggy i mean generally speaking

i like the less government idea good good woman you’re you’re you’re headed

a lot less like a lot like like very less like oh like none that sounds good

i don’t know they’re kind of crazy people out there yeah i know what do you do about a

police force well what what we do about chris i know it’s private what do you do with crazy people in the absence of

government well i’ve got an idea well you don’t put them in charge of a freaking government

that’s a good start what do you do because it’s not going to be greek negativity like sociopathic people who

only care about themselves well one thing you do is you don’t put them in charge of the military

the money is start what do you do with abusive people who like to beat people up well one thing is you don’t give them

guns so i’ll take my chances with the free

market thank you very much with the free market or with a free market there

there’s only one it doesn’t really matter i don’t know just like being pedantic so you’ll have to send peggy emails

explaining to her what we’re going to do about police force not that the police force does a good job of preventing crime

or even solving crime in fact sometimes when you get your car stolen and it’s got a microchip in it

that allows them to locate your car using a satellite the police still tell you they’re not

going to locate the car and apprehend the assailant so one thing i

would say is you fire the police if they don’t actually do a good job and you hire someone else to do their

job before they if they do a good job if they don’t do a good job you can fire them

oh that would be nice yeah there would be no police unions to take

it and teachers unions well the thing is the teachers have a monopoly service

under the current system so the union means a free market there’d be a bunch of

different police people providing education the union wouldn’t be and it’s the same for the police like

they could have a union but they’d just be one of several options that people had

so if they got too big for their gifts

they’d be easier to get rid of or replace with someone better yeah i think so too i’m doing all the

heavy lifting in these left talks i’m lifting the camera my arms getting tired

is their hand getting cold yeah a little bit yeah today’s cold my lips are cold my fingers are cold my

heart is cold and shriveled your heart is cold well they had uh they had this cake this is just one case

where there was some women living together and someone broke into their home and they went up into the attic

and they called the police and the police came and drove outside their house and stopped

and then went away and after a while they went downstairs to see if anything

had happened and the three of them basically got raped by the people that broke into their house

and the police didn’t do their job i think they called them a couple times they said they’d send someone right out

again and then they took the police to court for not doing their job and the judge

ruled that the police have no obligation to protect anyone from criminals and so the cops

got off of course you don’t have an allegation even though the women got raped so what i’m saying is without government

you wouldn’t have ridiculous cases like that because they work for

you the government don’t think they work for you they think you work for them so

hey peggy where’d you get that lanyard for your phone it’s online you did it was it just for

your phone or just for a large sized phone i don’t know i’d be scared to put mine in a lot cause i

think that’d be great for me skiing oh i love it i’m scared in case i ski too fast

it comes off the lanyard why would it come off i don’t know it’s the kind of stupid

[ __ ] that happens to me i’m great at losing friends yeah

over and out over and out overnight anthony’s king

and this is a picture of anthony samurov skiing i’m recording this on imovie

and this is a very short video of anthony skiing with me filming on my iphone

well hello here we are at the end of uh a nice day skiing our second day and uh don’t look stay close yeah don’t

let me hold this here okay [Music]

this might look weird but was it inappropriate that’s okay

i talked to andre in a man jaina anyway i got a main channel so i’m not even drunk i’ve just had one

of these this is what i’m always like yeah i have one of these which is not drunky you have to appreciate

kinsella because you might remember the first time he came on the scottish liberty podcast

he was wasted yeah but not next time i like to take i

like to i like to take credit for the fact that kinsella’s quit because i like to think that it’s

because he came on our show and humiliated himself that he decided do you know what drinking is no longer for me

now if i would have remembered it it would have helped can i take credit for all of your achievements from

now on sure in fact can i post data see that book intellectual property against

intellectual property if it wasn’t for me concealing ever would have written that book cam you’ve got time

time traveling skills i know what age was i when when did that book come out [Music] 2001 2001 when i was the prime age of

15. i didn’t even know that i was going to grow up to be your friend i thought i didn’t even know

you exist never mind didn’t know i was going to be your friend it’s crazy

crazy how life works i when you came on our podcast i didn’t know you were going to be my friend

i just thought it was a podcast thing

well i guess we travel around the world that’s what you get two more lights living the high life yeah

prairie prairieville moved up to telluride can i tell you something yeah you guys at home

they used to call america the land of opportunity and that is true because

since i’ve come here i’ve had tons of opportunities i went to the conference mises institute made friends

with this dude i’m publishing a book on cellular health what else happened i had a great

experience in florida what’s more i got a phone call from i got a message

on facebook from a publisher asking to publish my next book um we went to auburn too yeah went over

and spoke to michael heiss about getting on the belt how did he say his name is

pronounced let’s tell him nice actually he said it’s not haysa heist okay it’s heist everyone

sorry michael heiss michael heisen’s official maybe we’ll have him on the show one day

maybe you could be cool with stefan okay is there anyone you want to interview

because maybe you can be the guest co-host of the podcast and interview someone

i have to think about it that’s not how i roll usually it looks like i’m going to be on the bell at the nevada libertarian party state

convention oh here’s a tip here’s a tip for you a tip for you when you go to nevada

most outsiders try to make it fancy and they call it they say nevada

but it’s really nevada that’s how i pronounced that i know you did it right but the interesting thing is um

yeah maybe i should just see if i can get on all of them i’m such an attention or

um i’ve got a speaking opportunity in seattle none of this [ __ ] happened when i was in

scotland what the [ __ ] have i been doing for the last five six seven years since i’ve been a public intellectual being depressed

yeah partly so but i think it’s just because i hadn’t met you yet but now i met you and i’m no longer depressed

my life is complete this everyone thinks i’m an [ __ ] i know that’s because your online

persona is a little bit more sharp than you are in real life i love the

fact that because i’m in the pool it makes her look like the bottom half of my body

look look look it makes it look tiny it’s an illusion it’s like i’m a little bit it’s like

it’s like optical shrinkage so i think what we should do is end our

indoor lift notes today and maybe do another tomorrow maybe we’ll stop this could be episode one and

tomorrow could be episode b so let us know if you like lyft notes and we’ll just do it every time we come to colorado

sweet cheers guys thank you so much for watching or listening awesome yay that is so

beautiful this is so awesome i i like it better once it’s cooked it’s just golden color

to it and like crunchy crispy awesome

okay what would you like oh my goodness and

now just a few photos from the dinner party that followed this evening after our second day of

skiing in our first lift talks this is the beef wellington this is the dessert and

this is just some nice dinner conversation

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{ 1 comment }

KOL328 | Heterodorx Ep. 10 with Nina Paley: I.P. Everywhere!

by Stephan Kinsella on March 30, 2021

Kinsella on Liberty Podcast, Episode 328.

This is my appearance on Heterodorx Episode 10: I.P. Everywhere!, hosted by Nina Paley and Corinna Cohn (posted March 29, 2021; recorded March 25, 2021). Nina is also on the C4SIF Advisory Board. From the shownotes (see also Nina’s Facebook post):

Get ready for some hardcore Libertarian nerd-talk, as Corinna goes head-to-head with Stephan Kinsella, author of Against Intellectual Property, and Libertarianism’s foremost critic of copyright and patents. Thrill to dazzling theories of labor vs. action, restrictive covenants, negative easements, burdened estates, nuisances, limitations, consent, redistribution of rights, triangular intervention, property, scarcity, value, allocation of contestable resources, conflict, trade secrets, the Patent Bargain, disclosure, distortion, abolishing the FDA…wait, what? By the end of the episode, Corinna suffers a long-overdue crisis of faith. SUCCESS!

Related links:

Stephan Kinsella, Against Intellectual Property C4SIF.org Resources

http://c4sif.org/resources/ Intellectual Property Rights as Negative Servitudes

Karl Fogel:The Surprising History of Copyright and The Promise of a Post-Copyright World and https://youtu.be/mhBpI13dxkI

Boldrin & Levine, Against Intellectual Monopoly “Conversation with an author about copyright and publishing in a free society” (Harry Potter example)

“Intellectual Property” as an umbrella term and as propaganda: a reply to Richard Stallman

A Selection of Kinsella’s Best Articles and Speeches on IP

Podcast (kinsella-on-liberty): Play in new window | Download (Duration: 1:16:52 — 52.8MB)

{ 2 comments }

Libertarians and Groups I Support via Patreon

by Stephan Kinsella on March 30, 2021

I’ve decided to try to set up contributions, on a regular basis, to some of the people and groups doing good work in libertarian, bitcoin, or related areas, via Patreon, Local, and other channels. Here are the ones I support at present, either irregularly or (usually) regularly. I plan to update this list from time to time.

Tom Woods Elite
Michael Malice
Tenth Amendment Center (Michael Boldin)
Pink Flame of Liberty (Caryn Ann Harlos)
Free Man Beyond The Wall (Peter Quiñones)
Robert Breedlove
Rubin Report
Mises Institute
Libertarian Party
Libertarian Party of Texas
Property and Freedom Society

{ 0 comments }

Comments on Block and Barnett on the Optimum Quantity of Money

by Stephan Kinsella on March 26, 2021

My friends Walter Block and William Barnett published an interesting paper several years ago, “On the Optimum Quantity of Money,” Quarterly Journal of Austrian Economics, Vol. 7, No. 1, 2004, pp. 39-52. ¹ At a Mises Institute conference in 2010 or 2011, or perhaps in a phone call with Walter, I believe we discussed this issue and some papers they had written about this. I disagreed with Walter and, after reading their full paper, sent them some critical comments. These (lightly edited), with some prefatory and additional comments, are appended below.

Prefatory Note

In this email, back in 2011, at the dawn of bitcoin, I said bitcoin seems almost like an “ideal money”. Too bad I didn’t act on it… : [continue reading…]

William Barnett II & Walter Block, “On the Optimum Quantity of Money,” Q. J. Austrian Econ. 7, no. 1 (2004): 39–52; see also idem, “The Optimum Quantity of Money, Once Again,” Economics, Management, and Financial Markets 7, no. 1 (March 2012): 9–24 (pdf); see also Walter Block on Money as a Sui Generis Good. [↩]

{ 2 comments }

KOL327 | Libertarian Answer Man: Selling vs. Owning: With Shea Fisker

by Stephan Kinsella on March 24, 2021

Kinsella on Liberty Podcast, Episode 327.

I was asked some questions about intellectual property, and how you can sell something (like information, or ideas, or even your labor) if you don’t own it, by Shea Fisker, a budding libertarian and fellow libertarian. He had just the right attitude. He listened and thought, and asked reasonable questions when he had an issue that puzzled him. Would that so many cocksure pro-IP libertarians, who really know almost nothing about IP law itself and the fundamentals of libertarian property theory, or even how to argue or discuss issues without being tendentious, equivocating, or question-begging.

Youtube below:

Here is the interchange which led to this discussion (lightly edited), along with related links: [continue reading…]

Podcast (kinsella-on-liberty): Play in new window | Download (Duration: 39:04 — 35.6MB)

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KOL326 | Scottish Liberty Podcast: Discussing the Mossoff-Sammeroff IP Debate, Take 1: Under the Influence…

by Stephan Kinsella on March 21, 2021

Kinsella on Liberty Podcast, Episode 326.

[Update: Transcript appended below]

Back on May 24, 2020, I appeared on the Scottish Liberty Podcast, with hosts Antony Sammeroff and Tom Laird. We discussed IP and related matters, including Sammeroff’s recent debate on the topic of IP with pro-IP Randian law professor Adam Mossoff. I was a bit drunk and it shows, and went off on a rant and was not as coherent as usual. The episode was entitled “Under the Influence… of Stephan Kinsella… Against Intellectual Property”. We recorded a second episode on May 30, 2020, entitled “A Sober Conversation with Stephan Kinsella…,” which was released as KOL289. I just realized I never posted the initial episode, so here it is, warts and all (unfortunately for fans of my drunken rants, I have quit drinking alcohol since I realized it’s a destructive poison with no benefits at all, so this won’t happen again).

Previous episode: KOL289 | Scottish Liberty Podcast: Discussing the Mossoff-Sammeroff IP Debate, Take 2: A Sober Conversation…

See various links, embeds, notes below.

Youtube of the current discussion:

Previous Youtube from KOL289.

Antony’s previous debate with Mossoff:

In his remarks, Mossoff mentioned this paper by Stephen Haber as supporting the empirical case for patents (funny, I thought the Objectivists had principles): Stephen Haber, “Patents and the Wealth of Nations,” 23 Geo. Mason L.Rev. 811 (2016). I have read through it as much as I can stand and provide my critical commentary here: “The Overwhelming Empirical Case Against Patent and Copyright”–see in particular note 3 and accompanying text.

❧

Transcript

Scottish Liberty Podcast: Discussing the Mossoff-Sammeroff IP Debate, Take 1: Under the Influence of Stephan Kinsella: Against Intellectual Property (May 21, 2020)

[Transcript of “Scottish Liberty Podcast: Discussing the Mossoff-Sammeroff IP Debate, Take 1: Under the Influence…” (May 21, 2020)]