Kinsella on Liberty Podcast: Episode 481.
This is my appearance on Adam Haman’s podcast and Youtube channel, Haman Nature (Haman Nature substack), a special 200th Episode Livestream Celebration! It features regular hosts Adam Haman and Tyrone, and other previous guests (recorded Feb. 7, 2026; official episode not yet released). I was a guest because of previous Haman Nature appearances. 1
Shownotes and transcript below.
Inspired by Jeffrey Tucker, I decided to dress up.
Shownotes (Grok)
Opening & Technical Difficulties
[3:02 – ~8:42]
Hosts Adam Haymon and Tyrone struggle with StreamYard/YouTube live setup. Multiple failed starts, audio muting issues, and a full restart after realizing the stream isn’t public. Guests (including Stephan Kinsella and Mark Maresca) briefly appear during troubleshooting.
Take Two – Official Welcome & Guest Introductions
[~8:42 – ~17:00]
Successful restart. Adam and Tyrone celebrate episode 200 (take two). Guests introduced: Stephan Kinsella (dressed in full “libertard” regalia with Mises hat and pipe), Scott Horton, Mark Maresca (White Pill Box), Brian O’Leary (Natural Order podcast co-host), and later arrivals. Banter about episode counts, outfits, technical woes, and congratulations.
Minneapolis / ICE Raids / Immigration Discussion
[~17:00 – ~38:00]
Tyrone (Minneapolis resident) gives local perspective on recent ICE incidents. Guests share views:
- Mark Maresca → white-pill take on accelerating public skepticism
- Scott Horton → partisanship, new footage reinforcing biases, panic in police shootings
- Stefan Kinsella → due process, nullification, decentralization, peaceful alternatives to force
- Brian O’Leary → economic incentives over coercion
Heavy focus on Minneapolis events, state nullification, federal overreach, and libertarian principles.
Viewer Comments, Guest Rotations & Banter
[~38:00 – ~1:00:00]
Reading sarcastic and positive YouTube comments from past episodes. Guests come and go (Scott Horton exits, Mark Polles / “Mark P” joins, Jason from If By Whiskey joins). More congratulations, plugs for guests’ shows/Substacks, merch mentions (shop.humanature.com), and light roasting.
Game Segment: “A Warmonger Says What?”
[~47:00 – ~1:00:00]
World premiere game. Panel (Stefan, Mark M, Mark Mo, Brian) guesses who said infamous political quotes. Chat players compete for $25 Human Nature merch gift cards. Questions cover MTG, Trump/Biden gaffes, Rick Perry, Bernie/Obama/Hillary, etc. Winners announced later.
Break, Ads & Music Video World Premiere
[~1:00:00 – ~1:16:00]
Short break with organic ads (Scott Horton Academy, Swan Brothers merch).
World premiere of Human Nature Records parody music video: “The Devil is a Republican” (Grok-rewritten Tom MacDonald-style lyrics set to music by Tyrone). Full performance played.
New Segment Debut: “It’s Always Anarchy in Philadelphia”
[~1:56:00 – ~2:19:00]
Brand new recurring segment announced. Uses clips from It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia to explain Austrian/Misesian economic concepts.
First clip: Season episode discussing couch rental interest, inflation, wages, and “nut.”
Stefan Kinsella gives detailed breakdown: time preference, interest rates, monetary vs. price inflation, Fed manipulation, sound money, Bitcoin vs. gold, fractional reserve debates, free banking vs. Rothbardian views.
Closing Thanks, Final Comments & Sign-off
[~2:19:00 – 2:48:00]
Guests give on-camera praise for the show (Mark Maresca, Brian O’Leary, Mark Polles, Dominic Scarcella, Stefan Kinsella).
Brief Bitcoin/gold/silver/fiat collapse discussion.
Final plugs, merch reminder, “The Devil is a Republican” video tease.
Emotional thanks to guests and audience for 200 episodes.
Ends with signature “Heat” send-off.
Total runtime ≈ 2 hours 45 minutes (including breaks and music video).
Episode highlights: technical comedy, deep libertarian discussion, game debut, parody music video premiere, and first episode of the new economics-through-pop-culture segment.
Transcript (youtube; Grok assist)
Human Nature – 200th Episode Celebration
(Full Compiled Corrected Transcript – From Beginning to End)
Spelling errors corrected, filler words like “uh” or “um” removed (without paraphrasing or altering meaning/structure), occasional topical descriptive headers added, speaker names when identifiable (or “[Unknown Speaker]” if not), timestamps after each header and speaker change. Names standardized: “Human Nature” / “Adam Haman” / “Stephan Kinsella”.
[3:02 – Opening Title & Initial Technical Chaos]
Intro Voiceover
Human Nature, a journey in search of a peaceful and prosperous society with human nature as a guide. Led by your host Adam Haman.
[3:24]
Adam Haman
Hello. Isn’t technology just hilarious? I guess so.
[3:29]
Tyrone
You got big plans for your 200th episode celebration and then all of a sudden nothing works.
[3:36]
Adam Haman
I still don’t see it on my YouTube, but if you see it on yours, I believe somebody is seeing it somewhere.
[3:42]
Tyrone
Yes, somebody is seeing it somewhere. Well, I guess it’s just going to be you and me.
[3:48]
Adam Haman
This is kind of how the last one was. Well, hey, we made it. Congratulations, sir. Even if nobody’s seeing this, I don’t know.
[4:06]
Tyrone
We do have a couple of guests waiting in the waiting room. Maybe they know. But first, we allow some of these bozos on to come celebrate with us. Congratulations, sir. It’s number 200. I didn’t know if we would make it. Cheers, my friend.
[4:23]
Adam Haman
When we started this little project two years ago, can you believe that?
[4:29]
Tyrone
It’s crazy. Oh, you’re getting dinged. Ding-donged. Well, welcome everybody to the fantastic, fabulous, super califragilistic 200th episode of Human Nature.
[4:41]
Adam Haman
Oh, wait. I can get my sound effects going. Yeah, I don’t think we’re live, my friend.
[4:47]
Tyrone
Yeah, I don’t think we are either.
[4:53]
Adam Haman
Oh, this is just so silly. So Stefan and Mark, if you can hear us, apologies. Adam’s a dumb [ __ ] when it comes to technology.
[5:07]
Tyrone
Should we pop these fellas on here and just apologize to him? I mean, it’s 12:12. Should we just cancel this whole nonsense?
[5:13]
Adam Haman
No. Stefan Kinsella.
[5:19]
Stephan Kinsella
Hi, Mark.
[5:19]
Mark Maresca
Mark. Hey, guys. What’s up? Congratulations, Adam.
[5:25]
Adam Haman
Thank you. Hold it. We might have to redo this whole thing.
[5:25]
Tyrone
Yeah, we’re almost certainly going to have to redo this whole thing. I could show you. My YouTube studio thinks that we have a live stream.
[5:38]
Adam Haman
It thinks it’s happening.
[5:48]
Tyrone
Oh, yeah. It thinks we’ve been going for 5 minutes, but nobody else thinks this.
[5:57]
Adam Haman
Well, that’s interesting.
[5:57]
Tyrone
Mr. Kinsella, I know we’ve never met, but nice to meet you virtually, sir. I’m going to kiss your ass here in a second, but I kind of wanted to do it when we’re actually going, so just pretend we’ve never seen each other five minutes prior to this. But I like the hat and the pipe. Very deerstalker. I’ll start calling you Watson or something.
[6:16]
Stephan Kinsella
Yeah, that is about the pipe. You look amazing.
[6:22]
Tyrone
Oh, I can’t hear you though. Are you muted? Who’s muted, my friend?
[6:30]
Mark Maresca
No, nobody’s muted, but I can’t hear Mark either. Mark, say something.
[6:30]
Mark Maresca
Talking talking.
[6:36]
Tyrone
Okay, Stephan, I can’t. You are I can’t hear stuff now.
[6:43]
Adam Haman
Well, maybe nothing works. Maybe that’s the Streamyard let you pick the mic and Oh, how about now? How about now?
[6:51]
Stephan Kinsella
Yeah. Yeah, you’re correct. How about now? My mic was muted. My mic, my Yeti was muted.
[6:57]
Tyrone
I don’t see anything on YouTube Studio, Adam, saying anything’s going
[7:03]
Adam Haman
Well, mine does.
[7:03]
Tyrone
Really? Where are you? 7 seconds. I think it’s just screwing with me.
[7:19]
Adam Haman
All right. Well, what the hell? Yeah, I don’t know what we’re going to do about this, my friend. Thanks guys for trying to attend.
[7:26]
Tyrone
It says now I put a touch for you. It’s marked. It’s marked as private.
[7:33]
Adam Haman
Okay. I am listen I am now going to list it as public and I’m going to publish it.
[7:38]
Tyrone
Okay. And you’re going to restart the countdown video. Okay. So go ahead and restart the countdown video.
[7:44]
Adam Haman
Okay. Okay. Let me know when you got that going.
[7:50]
Tyrone
Leave it to the porcupine to solve all the problems. I mean, we knew this. I’m ready.
[7:55]
Adam Haman
Okay, hit it.
[8:42 – Restart / Countdown]
Sound effects / countdown
Heat Heat. Heat up here. Heat. Heat up here. Heat up here.
[10:54]
Intro Voiceover
Human Nature, a journey in search of a peaceful and prosperous society with human nature as a guide. Led by your host, Adam Haman.
[11:16]
Adam Haman
Hello everybody. Welcome to Human Nature. I’m Adam Haman and I am an idiot.
[11:21]
Tyrone
No, you don’t. That goes without saying, man. You don’t need to qualify. Just the man giving no qualifiers is the porcupine hobo, Tyrone. Hello, Tyrone.
[11:32]
Tyrone
Hey, brother. Congratulations, my friend. For the people that may have seen this before. This is take two. Here we go. 200th episode. Woo! Holy crap.
[11:45]
Adam Haman
It wasn’t easy getting this far. We’re late because we couldn’t get the stream going. And I don’t know if we could get the stream going. I couldn’t get the stream going.
[11:57]
Tyrone
Okay. But rather than do the usual blather that we would normally do right here, we have some guests that we don’t deserve that I’d like to put right on the screen.
[12:08]
Adam Haman
All right, let’s get it going. Welcome everybody to the 200th episode extravaganza of Human Nature. Ladies and gentlemen, Stephan Kinsella.
[12:16]
Adam Haman
Welcome to the show, Stephan.
[12:16]
Stephan Kinsella
Thank you.
[12:21]
Adam Haman
I want you to talk briefly about what you’re wearing because you look magnificent, sir.
[12:29]
Stephan Kinsella
Well, I decided to get dressed for you guys. And because when I dress up for events for professional functions or with my wife, I could never wear my libertard regalia. So I’ve libertarded it up.
[12:40]
Adam Haman
Oh, I appreciate that. We deserve it. I got my Mises hat.
[12:45]
Tyrone
And I don’t want to upstage you or anything, but we also have—sorry Mark—one second. We also have the great Scott Horton.
[12:54]
Scott Horton
God, you’re in the house. What?
[12:59]
Adam Haman
I also have a very classy pipe.
[12:59]
Scott Horton
Yes, you do. Gosh darn it.
[13:05]
Tyrone
What? We’re messing up, Tyrone. I’m also dressed up. I have Texas skateboard legends on my t-shirt.
[13:10]
Adam Haman
Well, I’m dressed up, too. I got Human Nature merch on.
[13:15]
Scott Horton
Hey guys. Congratulations on your thing there.
[13:21]
Adam Haman
Hey, thanks man. I really appreciate it. Thanks for coming by.
[13:21]
Scott Horton
Yeah. I’ve done 6,200 episodes of my show.
[13:28]
Tyrone
Wow. Who’s counting? I mean, come on.
[13:35]
Scott Horton
I played more Poker Hands, so there 200 is a lot, though.
[13:35]
Tyrone
Yeah, 200’s a lot. Just because the man is such good, he was waiting for us before the show even started. Let me welcome also Mark Maresca of the White Pill Box.
[13:50]
Mark Maresca
What? What? Thank you, brother.
[13:57]
Tyrone
I’m gonna pry that applause button from your Hey, Scott. How you guys doing?
[13:57]
Various
Good. Good.
[14:02]
Mark Maresca
So Mark, congratulations, my friend. 200. I love it.
[14:08]
Tyrone
Thank you. Thank you. So Mark, I’ve been a guest on your show. Adam and I have both been guests on your show. Scott’s been a guest on our show multiple times. Hi Scott. But Stephan Kinsella has probably been the most recurring guest on Human Nature that we’ve ever had. And I’ve never actually spoken to him in person, which is just a tragedy because I consider, and I’ve said this many times on the show, that anything Stephan Kinsella says is right. Stephan, you’re one of my heroes. I’m so happy to meet you.
[14:39]
Stephan Kinsella
I’m honored. Thank you for joining us and thanks for being a part of the 200th episode of Human Nature.
[14:39]
Stephan Kinsella
Thank you. Good to meet you, too. And congrats on your 200th episode.
[14:46]
Tyrone
Yeah. So we started this project two years ago, almost to the date. Who knew if we’d make it or keep going because these things tend to fizzle out. But I’m pretty proud of our little project, Adam.
[15:00]
Tyrone
So what we’ve done here, folks, for those of you watching live in the chat, and we’ve got an action-packed show for you to celebrate our 200th episode. We’ve got special guests, which you can already see on screen with a few more to come. We’ve got a brand new game to debut. And hopefully some of our guests can stick around and play that. But for those of you joining us in the chat, stick around for the game because you’re going to have a chance to win some awesome prizes for Human Nature merch store.
[15:28]
Adam Haman
Oh, that’s true. We do have $25 gift certificates for the Human Nature merch store at shop.humanature.com.
[15:36]
Tyrone
But just because I don’t want poor Scott to immediately dive off this live stream, this game is better than the one we made you play last time.
[15:48]
Scott Horton
Hey, what are you talking about? I spent a lot of time making that game.
[15:54]
Tyrone
Okay, for those folks who don’t know, Adam’s the face of the show, but I do all the work behind the scenes. So I mean, come on.
[15:59]
Adam Haman
I can’t believe you’re admitting to that.
[16:04]
Tyrone
Luckily, I didn’t read it, so I don’t remember. You smoke a lot of weed, and that works in our favor here.
[16:10]
Adam Haman
There you go.
[16:16]
Tyrone
All right. Well, in addition to the guests, in addition to the game, in addition to internet problems and technical difficulties, we’re going to talk about some various topics, you know, what’s going on in the world, just check in with everybody. But Adam, probably the two things I’m excited most, we are not only debuting a new game, we’re also debuting a brand new segment on the show.
[16:42]
Tyrone
So folks that are loyal viewers of our show know that we like to do these little funny segments on our show from time to time. We got a brand new one that you don’t want to miss. And then Adam do I even ruin the surprise.
[16:56]
Tyrone
So folks, we’re going to stream for at least a couple hours. We’re going to take a break right in the middle and then right after the break, we have something so special to debut to the world. It’s going to be a game changer. I swear you don’t want to miss that.
[17:16]
Tyrone
All right, so we got a lot of fun stuff coming up, but Adam, since we’ve got some guests, let’s begin with one of our topics of conversation. So, you know, we’re trying to keep this episode a little bit more fun, a little bit more jovial. So, let’s dive right into the things happening in Minneapolis.
[17:30]
Tyrone
All right. So, for those of you who know me, I live in Minneapolis. So I see a lot of this stuff firsthand. And so Adam wanted me to sort of maybe give my perspective, you know, I think a lot of this stuff gets blown up a little bit on the news obviously, you know, and things go viral. the one clip and obviously it’s been a lot of tragic events that have happened and I’m not trying to downplay or diminish that in any way, but it’s not like the city’s on fire like it was a few years ago when my wife and I packed up our bags and got the hell out of the city for a week.
[18:08]
Tyrone
It was a little scary there for a couple days. I’d say it’s quieted down now. you know, protests are still happening, but you know, the protesters here in Minneapolis, especially during the winter. Now, wait till summer comes around, the weather’s warmer. I don’t know what it’ll look like, but I’m curious to know if let’s just start around the room. Mark, let’s start with you. you know, you have any immediate thoughts or commentary or have you covered this on your own show, the things going on here in Minnesota?
[18:48]
Mark Maresca
No, not yet. But you know, I sit here in the spirit of positivity of this celebration. I’m going to pull a white pill out of this [ __ ]
[18:54]
Mark Maresca
Awesome. So, what I was thinking about was the long term and the the trends. So, I thought about 911 and I thought about COVID and now I’m thinking about Minneapolis.
[19:07]
Mark Maresca
911 I would say it took probably 10-15 years before it was more or less allowable to even question the terror wars. I mean that’s that [ __ ] just stayed in the public mind as like you got to support this. I’d say it took about two years maybe before it was allowable out there to talk about it. Those of us who were skeptical were talking about it but you remember cancel culture all that.
[19:38]
Mark Maresca
I think Minneapolis, this ICE [ __ ] started about December. I think that’s about when it really hit. This is the month when it is very much allowable to be skeptical of it. So I realize that’s not a perfect analogy of events. But when you look at that 25 years ago it took 10-15 years for the public to be allowed to be skeptical. COVID two years. This one month. To me that’s a white pill because it shows a trend that skepticism is generally growing. Doesn’t mean an anarcho-capitalism is necessarily moving forward or anything like that. I’m just talking about general skepticism. So if the public is allowed to be this skeptical this quickly, it kind of shows that propaganda is starting to fail a little bit. And Dave Smith has actually talked about this a lot. So to me, I see a really great trend in that.
[20:28]
Tyrone
Mark, I love you because of the white pill. I got to come back on your show real soon because I always feel better doing it because you know I’m Mr. Black Pill over here.
[20:41]
Adam Haman
Hey, before we move on, should we bring on another guest?
[20:48]
Tyrone
Why not? Who’s this guy sitting in the waiting room? This is the guy who is responsible for this travesty you are currently participating in and witnessing. Welcome to the show, my buddy Brian O’Leary.
[20:59]
Brian O’Leary
I didn’t know I was responsible for this, Adam. It wasn’t my idea to start writing and podcasting. You talked me into it.
[21:11]
Brian O’Leary
You twisted my arm. You kidnapped my wife. I mean, you know,
[21:18]
Adam Haman
I apologize for not having a pipe. We have a side of the show and a non-side of the show. I guess that’s not a sound effect, is it? What is that? Tyrone, you sound terrible all of a sudden.
[21:30]
Tyrone
I do. I’m getting some weird feedback.
[21:37]
Adam Haman
Yeah, I think that’s Tyrone’s mic. Well, welcome to the show, Brian. Collect your thoughts. We’re talking about the Minneapolis debacle. I asked Tyrone to explain himself and take responsibility for not only the ICE thing and the protesters, but whatever happened with Derek Chauvin and St. George Floyd and the Somali refugees or not refugees, illegal immigrants stealing all our Medicaid money. And I was just asking him to explain himself for all that.
[22:04]
Adam Haman
Scott Horton, my friend, what do you think about the whole Minnesota thing? Personally, I’m rooting for little Timmy Walz to actually secede from the union and hope that it causes a bunch of people to carry over the same idea. What say you?
[22:24]
Scott Horton
I’m against Minnesota.
[22:30]
Adam Haman
Oh no, I’m losing Scott. He’s against Minnesota. That’s all I got. Are you back? You said you were against Minnesota.
[22:35]
Scott Horton
I think my internet froze up there for a second.
[22:41]
Adam Haman
Yeah, good old Streamyard probably can’t handle bandwidth. How do I sound now?
[22:48]
Scott Horton
Adam, you’re better.
[22:53]
Adam Haman
Okay. All right. So, you’re in Minnesota. Am I freezing still?
[22:53]
Scott Horton
No, you’re good. You’re good, man. You’re okay. So, but before it’s like 80 degrees outside. How could I freeze?
[23:00]
Adam Haman
That’s right. That’s right. Before we let Scott continue, Brian, hi. You and I have never met, but we are sort of counterparts, I suppose, with Adam being the lynchpin in the middle. So, Adam has another podcast that he hosts with Brian here. You want to plug that a little bit, Adam, or did you do that already? I missed it.
[23:17]
Adam Haman
I meant to, but I didn’t. Yeah. When Brian talked me into this we started the Natural Order podcast and put out I don’t know 27 28 great episodes. We’re sort of on a hiatus now until something comes along and inspires us to get together, get the old team back together. But that’s a great show.
[23:35]
Brian O’Leary
I think not much in the news these days. I defer to the cigarette boat known as Human Nature to get Adam’s stuff out there.
[23:49]
Adam Haman
Yeah, we launched out pretty fast. I’m sorry, Scott. I need you to elaborate. We’re all against Minnesota. Sorry, Tyrone, but like be more specific. Do you think we should drop nukes on Minneapolis or what?
[24:01]
Scott Horton
Oh, I don’t know. Drop nukes on them, I guess. So, is that like do I guess I’m federal more than local ones. Was that the question?
[24:16]
Adam Haman
What’s the question exactly? You can answer any old question you want here on Human Nature.
[24:21]
Scott Horton
Oh, I don’t know. I don’t know anything about Minneapolis, man.
[24:29]
Scott Horton
Yeah, I’ll tell you this. Here’s the thing that maybe the only interesting thing that I have to say about it, and it might not even be interesting. It’s just about the partisanship of the interpretation of everything that happened there. Especially the deliberate—or actually I shouldn’t say that—the maybe completely innocent exclusion of details that fall outside of the purview of the point of view of everybody analyzing the videos of these two ICE killings so that when—as some great Twitterer wrote—when new footage comes out that’s slower and clearer and from better angles then both sides are still reinforced in their own point of view. Nobody changes their mind. Nobody goes, “Oh, well, I did think this, but now I think that.” They all still believe the same thing, only harder, even in the face of new evidence, which you would think would really sway people one way or the other.
[25:17]
Scott Horton
A good example of this is in the case of the shooting of the lady. The people who take the side of the cop virtually always neglect to mention that she reverses to the left before going forward to the right because she’s clearly trying to get a better angle around the cop. She’s not trying to run him over. She’s trying to get between him and the truck. Doesn’t mean she was smart to do that. But you don’t ever hear someone say, “Okay, now she does back up to the left in order to turn to the right.” But I still think it was okay for the cop to shoot her. Just if you think it was okay for the cop to shoot her, you just leave out that part because it goes against your side of it at all. I’m sure there’s another example from the left side of that one. But then on up and to the right, they covered it in Seinfeld. Up and to the right. Up to the right. That’s right.
[26:13]
Scott Horton
So what I’m hearing you saying in the one where they shot the guy, people, everybody knows this, but they don’t talk about—I don’t think either side really emphasizes the fact that as soon as the cop who ended up shooting him—I think it was the same one. No, no, no, it was the other cop. No, it’s the other cops. The one guy grabbed his gun, saw the gun, he goes, “Gun, gun, gun.” which is what they train cops to do, which is the same thing as essentially saying panic, panic, panic. Right?
[26:41]
Scott Horton
Instead, he could have simply said, “The guy has a gun in the small of his back. I’m going for it. Okay, I got it.” But he said, “Gun, gun, gun.” And then he misfires it.
[26:54]
Scott Horton
Yes. Yes. And then when he misfires it, this is—I’ve just seen cops do this in numerous cases before—one cop accidentally fires and even will shoot another cop, say a SWAT team in a file line going inside a house and then they all kind of open fire in a panic as soon as they hear a gunshot. And so there’s no—but then you see people say, which I still think it’s an unjustified shoot, but people go, “They disarmed him and then they executed him.” And it’s like, nuh-uh. The one cop shouted, “Panic, panic, panic.” and then fired a damn round into the ground and the other cops panicked.
[27:32]
Scott Horton
That’s what happened. So that makes it manslaughter, not murder one. So it’s just as bad. But anyway, I just think—what’s my point is that about Obi-Wan Kenobi sitting on the log saying a great many of the truths we cling to are dependent on our own point of view. And you could just be so bound by that actually that you have no idea how bound by that you actually are. Maybe you know that’s everybody. Discussion with my eight-year-old—I had this discussion with my eight-year-old son the other day. We were watching Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi, wherever that came from, and he’s like Obi-Wan lied. Obi-Wan lied.
[28:13]
Adam Haman
Well, let me defend my—explain that nuance.
[28:18]
Tyrone
Yeah, a little bit. So, I love my city. I love Minneapolis, Minnesota. It’s a great place to live, even in the brutal winters. You know, whatever side you come down on this whole ICE thing, I just think this was the wrong approach. So, you know, as a libertarian, I think incentives matter.
[28:43]
Tyrone
And I think where there’s a way to do something through an economic incentive is always better than doing something through a use of force. You know, I asked—I think I’d like to get Stephan’s input here, Stephan. You know, if the administration was serious about just removing illegal immigrants, wouldn’t the more peaceful, easier solution just be to sort of impose—I’m just thinking of one example—impose some sort of fine against any employer that hires someone that’s illegal or something like that. So, it seems to me that the administration is using this show of force with some other intent behind it. Any thoughts like that?
[29:23]
Stephan Kinsella
Yeah, I’ve been to Minneapolis. I think it’s a wonderful city. I think I heard that some kid asked his dad who works for ICE. He came home from work. He says, “How are things at work?” He says, “Pretty good.”
[29:49]
Stephan Kinsella
That’s the greatest answer I’ve ever heard. Okay. But no, so my take on it is even if you’re an anti-open borders, anti-mass immigration libertarian, there are still procedures that the police and the federal agents have to follow, right? Due process, Bill of Rights rights, you know, Second Amendment rights, Fourth Amendment rights, Fifth Amendment rights.
[30:11]
Stephan Kinsella
On the other hand, the government is inept at everything. So you’re going to have to expect that this is what’s going to happen when they’re in charge of things. Now, personally, I think that most people are against mass immigration for the wrong reasons, right? They’re afraid of driving down wages and things like that. So I don’t personally think that the government should prevent employers from hiring people. Of course the right way to do it is just to remove the franchise and remove welfare benefits and then what would be the problem?
[30:47]
Stephan Kinsella
So but yeah, there’s more peaceful ways to do this obviously than doing that and also they could target just people that have committed crimes coming out of the jails and of course Minnesota is not cooperating with this. But, you know, my main takeaway from this is libertarians were all in favor of nullification and decentralization 10-15 years ago.
[31:06]
Stephan Kinsella
Why they should stand up for Minnesota having the right to just nullify any federal action on their territory that they don’t want. Even if you’re in favor of federal immigration policy or enforcement, you know, from a federalist point of view, the state of Minnesota has the right to just not allow the enforcement of laws they regard to be illegal or unconstitutional or just wrong.
[31:35]
Tyrone
Yeah. But is that really Minnesotans saying that or is it Jacob Frey and Tim Walz saying that because the average Minnesotan—I don’t know, Tyrone, you be an example of an average Minnesotan—Frey abdicated their jobs, they’ve abdicated the responsibility here and so thus ICE comes in.
[32:06]
Tyrone
Yeah, I would say it would be better if ICE never had to come in, but for crying out loud when—and this is happening all over the country. I’m from Portland, Oregon. Same thing happens there. You know, the local police are hands off. They can’t do anything. And it’s not just the border stuff. It’s the crime. Adam and I have talked about it on our other show. It’s the crime around the legalization of drugs. It’s not the drugs themselves. Just the rampant crime involved with that that they don’t do anything about. Fine, drugs, whatever. But they don’t do anything about the crime. They don’t do anything about the crime that these immigrants—they had a deal in Portland a while ago where there was a—didn’t get as much news as the Minneapolis thing, but ICE agents shot two—I think there were Venezuelan Tren de Aragua or whatever the heck that gang is. They shot him. It was a very similar thing to this gal in the van in Minnesota, but they were hostile to the cops. They shot, cops shot back.
[33:15]
Tyrone
So, I’m hearing a bunch of different things, guys. Gang members are bad. Scott says chicks can’t drive and cops can’t handle firearms. I get that. Kinsella says we need complete and total anarchy. I get that. Mark said some smart stuff too. But I’m more interested in like Scott’s initial tweet when I think the lady got shot in the minivan or whatever it was—was that how have you felt about this issue? Nothing changed when the videos come out. So I’m curious if anybody of you seen anybody change their mind after seeing more information? Because from my perspective, if you like what ICE is doing, you totally think each bullet fired was sent from God. And if you don’t like what ICE is doing, then—
[33:59]
Scott Horton
Well, I’ll tell you what, that was actually my first tweet, Adam, was the facts are clear. If you lean left, the cop murdered the lady. And if you lean right, she had it coming. And then I’ll tell you what, a lot—I got quite a few responses that said, “Well, I lean right and I’m against it. Bullshit.” And I didn’t have anyone say, “I lean left and I’m for executing the lady or shooting her in the face to death.” But there were quite a few right-wingers who actually said that they beg to differ with that. But by and large that basically is right, you know, as you put it, that if you support the policy, then you support the collateral damage because you just want to see this thing through.
[34:44]
Scott Horton
And we saw a lot of that, you know, including from some right-wing friends. They’re like, “Yeah, well, those are the breaks, pal.” which really sucks because, you know, they’re so stuck behind their own eyeballs. They don’t really realize that like, nah, your support for this kind of thuggery just going around and harassing random people to check them for their citizenship and stuff. This is immediately obviously going to—and already has—blown up in their face, not just with the killing. And by the way, did you guys notice this that the cops that killed the white people were all Mexicans, which I did notice that—or Honduran or something like that.
[35:18]
Scott Horton
Yeah, they’re all Latino. Anyway, yeah. But then support for immigration enforcement and deportations has plummeted, you know, at least according to the polls I’ve seen is just absolutely through the floor because people go, “Oh, look, this is what that looks like. Then we don’t want to do—” And in fact, you know, it’s a conspiratorial time. What the hell, man? Anyone one of us could—I guess probably even imagine the Epstein email if we had to—that like you could see them conspiring to actually sabotage mass deportations on behalf of the Democrats and on behalf of big business that wants downward pressure to relieve some upward pressure on wages to actually what we’ll do is we’ll unleash the lowest level ICE thuggery for a short time in order to destroy public support for the policy.
[36:09]
Scott Horton
And you know, I don’t think they’re going to open the southern border again, but rounding people up by the millions and millions and millions and exporting them, that’s already cancelled because of this. And so, it’s just one step of logic to think, yeah, that’s why they did it is because they never wanted to see this through in the first place. Not that I’m advocating it, but I’m just saying you could.
[36:27]
Tyrone
Yeah. Anyway, that’s—I kind of suspect that there might be an alternative motive for doing it this way. That’s why I pose the question. I do want to go to Stephan and sort of move to our next topic because I think this demonstrates the divide in America. So Minnesota is typical like a lot of states. It’s a very divided state where you have a lot of densely populated cities like Minneapolis, St. Paul, Duluth, and the rest of the state is more rural farm country. And so you’ve got a red-blue split that is irreconcilable. And when you have irreconcilable differences, I say, Stephan, maybe we should start talking about national divorce. What say you?
[37:05]
Stephan Kinsella
Well, of course, I’ve always been in favor of decentralization across the country, across the world, within a state. Sure, that would be a good thing. I don’t know how likely it is. I do think it seems more likely than before. Like if you look at the doomsday clock type things, you know, are we closer to national divorce than ever? I think so, but it still seems like it’s far away.
[37:32]
Stephan Kinsella
But I mean, if you think about this effort to deport the illegals, it’s not going to happen. Just like when DOGE went after government spending, all they were doing is going after the low-hanging fruit. It was very minor and even that caused an uproar. So basically, it’s impossible to cut spending as well because the public doesn’t like the way you do it, which is you have to cut spending. So it seems like it’s impossible to stop this runaway train like Lynn Alden says about federal spending. No one’s going to stop this train and no one’s going to undo the problem with illegal immigration from the past. All we can do is number one try to reduce the inflows, which it seems like Trump has done. And you know, I think reform welfare, reform citizenship, something like that.
[38:20]
Adam Haman
Adam, before we move on to this—I would argue—titillating topic. We—sorry, Brian. We’ll get to one second. We’ve got somebody else that wants to join us. Adam, do you want to crowd this room even more?
[38:40]
Adam Haman
I would, except I see in the thumbnail he ain’t ready. But I do think that—oh, yeah. He walked away. Never mind. I do think that—golly—can I just add something about the national divorce.
[38:50]
Tyrone
Yeah, absolutely. If you’re still with us, you’re frozen a little bit. There you are. Go ahead.
[39:02]
Brian O’Leary
Yeah, I was going to say we’re already divorced and we just haven’t moved. We’re living under the same house, right? And you got a divorced couple living under the same house. Haven’t moved out. Just arguing about the thermostat. That’s all it is. And I don’t know that it’s going to change. Reconciling a divorced couple right now is—you know the official moving or the cleaving is probably in the future as Stephan says, but I think we’re already divorced. I mean there’s no—lot of people. Yeah. And we want more domestic violence.
[39:52]
Tyrone
Hey. Hey Tyrone, you know, we’ve been—we’ve had a show for two years. We’re on our 200th episode. We sure are. Did you do any research? I mean, I think people have sometimes gone onto our YouTube page and like said stuff about our show, right?
[40:04]
Adam Haman
Oh my god. Did you look up any cool things people said about how awesome we were? Man, people love us so much. That’s so good to hear.
[40:17]
Tyrone
So, let me—can I add something about the YouTube page? I just found out today, this morning, that I was not subscribed. And I talk about it all this time. It’s like, how easy is it to say it at the end of every episode, like, subscribe, comment, da da da. I didn’t even do it. I hadn’t even done it. I don’t do it for most podcasts. But again, I implore the listeners, if you’re not subscribed, just subscribe right now. It’s in front of you. Just click the subscribe button.
[40:45]
Adam Haman
Amen, brother.
[40:51]
Tyrone
Well, Adam, speaking of the great fanfare and love and adulation we get, we’d like to sprinkle in a few viewer comments during this episode. So, this comment from a viewer at Jennif Jeff Jeffer947.
[41:06]
Tyrone
Hey, thanks for the comment. Commented on episode 164 of Human Nature where we were talking about Jimmy Kimmel getting fired from a show. Remember that lasted 30 minutes. Jeffer99947 says, “This was your best episode yet.” Absolutely. I want peace. I don’t want to use force against anyone. I couldn’t love you guys more. Thank you. Great episode. Thank you, Jeff99947. We feel the same way.
[41:40]
Adam Haman
And here I was being sarcastic. I didn’t know we had positive ones.
[41:45]
Tyrone
There’s not many. Oh, you guys can tell that was sarcastic.
[41:51]
Adam Haman
Oh [ __ ] I should have read it sarcastic. All right, Adam. Is the other guest? It looks like he’s back in his chair. You want to bring him on?
[42:03]
Tyrone
All right, here I’m gonna dip out of here, guys. I got work.
[42:09]
Adam Haman
Hey, Scott, thanks for joining, man. We love you, man.
[42:15]
Tyrone
Scott, before you bail, give me 20 seconds. Just lean into the camera there and either say how awesome we are or how [ __ ] we are in as funny or straight a manner that you want.
[42:22]
Scott Horton
Okay, this show is okay.
[42:28]
Adam Haman
Thank you on a t-shirt. Scott Horton, thank you very much for doing this, Scott. I appreciate it.
[42:33]
Scott Horton
Oh, yeah. Y’all have a good one.
[42:40]
Tyrone
Well, good luck, Mark Polles. We got big shoes to fill from the Not Conscious and the If By Whiskey podcast. Welcome Mark Polles.
[42:45]
Mark Polles
Thank you so much for having me. I’m looking at the panel and I am just gushing. See Mark Maresca and Stephan. Oh great. It’s great seeing everybody.
[42:53]
Tyrone
Mark P. How you doing brother?
[42:53]
Mark Polles
Good. Good. How are you? And Eminem since we have two Marks here. How about Eminem?
[42:59]
Mark Maresca
Yeah. Mark Mark Maresca. He’s like triple M now.
[43:05]
Mark Polles
So, man, I’m listening in the back and it’s like I’ve got my all my conspiracy hat. I got some extra foil. We can start.
[43:12]
Tyrone
Well, Mark, before new Mark, before we get any further, who are you? And why don’t you give a little plug for your little corner of the world?
[43:19]
Mark Polles
I am a supporter of the Adam Haman Human Nature Show. That’s one. No, the 200th episode. Congratulations, guys. You’re the president of our club. So I’m just a basic guy who had weird stuff happen to him and in 2020 I just started talking about it and I’m just a polymath. So I will talk deep and wide about any subject that I don’t know but I will—I’m good conceptually but you know I don’t have all like maybe the math numbers or something but I generally have understandings of things but my curiosity is off the charts. So, notconscious.com. Also have If By Whiskey. So, Mark Maresca was on there as well. You guys were on as well, both of you guys, Adam and Tyrone. It was new co-host, Jake Day. But Jason just had a baby girl, so really excited for his next—
[44:14]
Mark Polles
Yeah, he had a baby girl, so he’s busy, and I love that for him. I also am suffering without him. He is—he’s mad. Mark Maresca can speak to that. Mark knows exactly.
[44:26]
Adam Haman
Yeah, Jason is also on the invite list. He has not arrived yet, but if he does, I’ll pop him right on.
[44:31]
Tyrone
We’re going to move on to our next topic if you guys are amenable. But first, I want to read my own YouTube comment from our little show. This one is the one where me and Charles Melchin analyzed the Netflix series Adolescence about the white male rage. And so this is from Fred Kalis.
[44:57]
Tyrone
This is episode 172. And he says, quote, I’m disappointed it’s not with Bob Murphy. Lol. I like that comment very much. Thank you.
[45:08]
Tyrone
The Fred Kalis, you know, Adam. So for those of you who watch the show, you know that Adam does an episode every week, crossover episode between the Bob Murphy Show and Human Nature, and they shared an episode on each other’s channel. We are approaching in the next few months, it’ll be the hundredth episode of your crossover. So, no, that can’t be true.
[45:32]
Adam Haman
I know. That’s crazy, isn’t it? If only, Adam, they could go somewhere to get like that shirt you’re wearing with the special URL. A celebration of that crossover.
[45:44]
Tyrone
I think everybody with any fashion taste whatsoever should go to shop.humanature.com. That’s shop.humanature.com. And you can get this t-shirt, which is awesome. Comes in multiple colors, multiple designs, plus hoodies, sweatshirts, hats. I don’t even know what’s on there. Yeah. If you need merch for not just the Human Nature merch, but you want to set up your own merch for your own thing, go to theswanbros.com/cross.
[46:15]
Tyrone
Amen. I’m noting—I’m just nudging you here. I think it’s crossover, isn’t it?
[46:21]
Adam Haman
No, it’s cross for that one. It’s crossover for Scott’s thing because we’re not smart about being consistent. Yeah. theswanbros.com/cross for all your branding merchandising.
[46:38]
Tyrone
Since we’ve got a few people here, how’s our chat looking, Adam? We got a few people in the chat.
[46:45]
Adam Haman
Okay. We are at the point of the show where we’re ready to play a game.
[46:52]
Tyrone
Before you start that I can’t see the damn chat. I just want you to know that. So, whatever machinations you had in mind that involve that chat, cancel or improvise, but I can’t see the chat. I can’t see a thing.
[47:04]
Adam Haman
Bring it up on your phone. I’m trying to get out of work and you’re just not letting me.
[47:09]
Tyrone
No. All right. So, Adam, do you have a piece of paper and a pen?
[47:15]
Adam Haman
I don’t have the chat.
[47:21]
Tyrone
All right. Here I go. Maybe I do. No.
[47:27]
Tyrone
You know, Adam and I are only a couple years apart, but I feel like our gap in technological.
[47:34]
Adam Haman
It’s three. Maybe two. Three is a lot.
[47:45]
Tyrone
All right. Well, Mark, Mark, Brian, Stephan, are you ready to play the brand new exciting—
[47:51]
Adam Haman
Adam? Where’s all our media? Well, we started and everything went to hell, so I uploaded nothing. Hang on. It’ll be right with you. I was busy. OMG. Yep. I am glad you guys got it worked out 200 episodes in. This is the way the 200 episode should be run.
[48:10]
Tyrone
Mark, you don’t understand. Editing is beautiful. That’s why we never do a live stream. You should see the disaster. I had to threaten to murder the porcupine and all his quills in order to get us starting the live stream.
[48:22]
Adam Haman
All right. Do you see your elements? Go. I see what I need to see for this piece of
[48:39]
Tyrone
Okay, let’s try it again. A warmonger says what? All right, ladies and gentlemen, look at my ladybugs. That’s what I say. Welcome to a brand new game called The Warmonger Says What? Here’s how it’s going to work, everybody. I’m going to read a series of multiple choice questions of quotes that politicians or pundits may have said. You’re going to guess who said it. When I say reveal your answer, Stephan, Mark, Mark, and Brian, you’re gonna hold up fingers so we can see either one, two, or three. So, you’re picking the first or second or third selection, right? And hold them up so we can kind of see. Adam’s going to keep track of the score. Now, you guys just get to play along for fun. You don’t get to win anything, but very exciting. For our folks in the chat, this is where you get to participate as well. When in doubt, the answer is C. That’s right. Except it’s no C. But I love it. I love it. When I say reveal your answer, chat, go ahead and type in a number one, two, or three. Okay. Everybody gets a point for a right answer, no points for a wrong answer. At the end, whichever two people in our chat and our viewers playing along here on YouTube, in the YouTube chat, whoever has the most—two people who have the most points—are going to win themselves a $25 gift card that they can use at shop.humanature.com to buy yourself some cool Human Nature swag.
[50:18]
Tyrone
All right. All right. So, pretty simple. Everybody understand? I’m gonna show a question. Give you guys a second to think about your answer. Then I’ll ask you to reveal. Hold up your fingers. One, two, or three. All right. Here we go. Sort of.
[50:41]
Tyrone
All right. A warmonger says what? Question one. All right. This person said, quote, “I’m not a violent individual. I’m just a conservative.” Was this Marjorie Taylor Greene, Sarah Palin, or Laura Loomer? All right, give yourself a second to think about it. Chat, are you ready? Okay, everybody, reveal your answers.
[51:07]
Tyrone
Stephan says one. Brian says three. Mark says three. And Mark P, are you saying two? You’re saying two. Who was it? I don’t have a weapon on me. You can check me. I’m not a violent individual. I’m just a conservative. Okay, that was Laura Loomer, the great conservative intellectual who’s been blowing up.
[51:33]
Tyrone
All right, so let’s see here. Who got that right? Was it Eminem and Brian? Yeah. All right. All right. Stephan and Mark P guessed it wrong. But I meant to say two.
[51:45]
Mark Polles
You meant to say two. I got you. I got you.
[51:50]
Tyrone
Okay, Adam, you keeping track of the score?
[51:56]
Adam Haman
So far, I have the score. I make no promises as to whether that will continue.
[52:02]
Tyrone
All right, we got a lot of people in the chat, so hopefully you can keep up. We might have to calculate the scores after the break, which will be coming up after this game. Okay, here we go. Question number two.
[52:08]
Tyrone
All right, who said, quote, “This is a tough hurricane. One of the wettest from the standpoint of water.” Was that Trump, Bush Jr. or Joe Biden? Give yourself one second to think about it. And everybody reveal your answers.
[52:28]
Tyrone
Stephan says one, Mark says one, Brian says one, and Mark P says two, Bush Jr. The answer is, of course, this is a tough hurricane. One of the wettest we’ve ever seen from the standpoint of water. From the standpoint of water, folks. One of the wettest we’ve ever seen. Mark P, you’re giving the wrong people too much credit.
[52:57]
Mark Polles
I’m giving the wrong people too much credit. I’ll tell you.
[53:03]
Tyrone
All right. So, everybody got that right except my boy If By Whiskey. He started drinking a little early. That’s all right. I am, too. You know, there’s something in this tumbler. I’m just saying.
[53:14]
Adam Haman
Okay, Adam, are you ready to move on?
[53:14]
Adam Haman
I am.
[53:21]
Tyrone
Here we go. Question three. Quote, “It’s three agencies when I get there are gone. Commerce, Education, and what’s the third?” Was that Quayle, Rick Perry or Steve Forbes? Stephanie says two. Mark Maresca, what are you saying? You’re also going two. And wow, we have uniform consensus. All right, chat. Go ahead and type in your answers.
[54:19]
Tyrone
Okay. Who said this amazing quote. And I will tell you, it’s three agencies of government when I get there that are gone. Commerce, education, and the what’s the third one there. Let’s see. I had to throw one in cuz the great Ron Paul just happened the Fed, right? He was going to say the Fed. I swear he was going to say the Fed. I swear he was going to say the idea even know energy, right? Didn’t he be called energy? It was going on during Enron for sure. It was energy for had to be.
[54:53]
Tyrone
All right, everybody got that one right. Everybody got that one right. Great. Okay, we’re on to question four.
[55:02]
Tyrone
All right. Quote, “Don’t let anyone tell you that it’s corporations and businesses that create jobs.” Was that Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama? Okay, everybody. All of them. It was all of them. Okay. Well, can I choose all the above?
[55:22]
Tyrone
All right, everybody, reveal your answers. Kinsella says Barack Obama. Mark says Barack Obama. Brian says—Mark P. What do you say? I can’t really see your—Are you saying Bernie Sanders? Saying Bernie Sanders. Okay. Who was it? Oh, chat, put in your answers. Here we go. Don’t let anybody tell you that you know it’s corporations and businesses that create jobs.
[55:53]
Tyrone
Nobody got that right. Right. Airball. That was Hillary. Everyone either took Bernie Sanders or Obama. I don’t know which one you win. That’s—I heard Obama say it. I did not hear Obama say it. I heard Bernie say that. It just sounds like a Bernie thing to say. Dude, I like the voices. I always wish I could do impersonations. I would try to do one but I can’t. Here here’s my best Adam Haman impersonation. How do you turn on this computer?
[56:24]
Adam Haman
Very nice. Very nice. But you need like a 42 octave lower. Like how do you turn on this? Right. Right. Right. Right.
[56:36]
Tyrone
All right. Question five. Here we go. All right. I’ve now been in 57 states with one left to go. Was this Bush Jr., Joe Biden, or Barack Obama? Okay, everybody reveal your answers. Chat, enter in your answers there. I love that someone in our chat is Brian—oh, that’s just chatting with the letter C. He’s gotten everyone right as long as—
[57:07]
Tyrone
All right. All right. Does everybody have their answers? Okay. Here we go. Stephan, what are you guessing? You’re guessing number one. Okay, here we go. It is just wonderful to be back in Oregon and over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states. I think one left to go. I don’t. Okay. That was Barack Obama.
[57:35]
Tyrone
All right. Ladies and gentlemen, this is intellectual giant. What’s that? Are you sure that was a Mandela effect? Did we go into a different—Did CERN get us in a different dimension? Did it branch us off? What’s going on? I absolutely believe in the Matrix for sure.
[57:52]
Tyrone
All right. This is the final question, everybody. Question six. Okay, so really put on your thinking cap for this one. After finishing the NDA, this week has been good bipartisan cooperation and a string of—I put a little impersonation effect to it. Was that Mitch McConnell, Harry Reid, or James Carville? All right, everybody reveal your answers. Chat, type in your answers. This is the last one. Here we go.
[58:30]
Tyrone
Path to finishing the NDA. No, this week has been good bipartisan cooperation and a string of—cocaine Mitch. I can tell a stroke out when I see one. Now that is locked-in syndrome. It happens to senators and turtles. Thousand yard stare he’s got right there. Which one is he, Adam?
[59:01]
Adam Haman
All right. I didn’t want to be overly bad with that one. And normally bad about making fun of someone with some sort of medical problem, but [ __ ] Mitch McConnell. You heard it here.
[59:20]
Tyrone
Broke out. I could smell his burnt toast. I couldn’t—I smelled oranges. You know what I’m saying? Like
[59:39]
Tyrone
All right, guys. Well, that was the world premiere of A Warmonger Says What? For tuning in to the first half of our show, we are going to take a break. When we come back from the break, Adam is going to calculate who the winner of those $25 gift cards was in the chat.
[59:53]
Tyrone
But folks, remember I promised you something amazing. When we come back from the break, you are not going to believe what it is. It’s a world premiere music video created by Human Nature Records. You don’t want to miss this one. Are we recording the video for that music right now? Is that what this is? This is just our, you know, we’re Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is This is a Don’t you Yeah.
[1:00:19]
Tyrone
All right. Well, guests, you are welcome to stick around. We’d love to have you keep with us. And for in the waiting room, stick around. We’re going to take a short break. Short bathroom break. We’ll be right back. Right back, Adam. If you want to take us into the break, please.
[1:00:37]
Adam Haman
Oh, yeah. That was my job. That was your job. Kind of stringing this along here a little bit. Let’s go. All right, folks. We’ll see you back here in five minutes. As soon as I do my job, my job is coming. See folks what I have to put up with here. You knew what you knew what this was. Every second of it. All right. Byebye.
[1:00:00 – Break & Ads]
Bob Murphy (voiced / ad read)
Bob, before we continue, I want to have a completely natural, totally spontaneous discussion about how awesome the new Scott Horton Academy is and why everybody listening should go to scotthortonacademy.com/crossover and immediately sign up for it.
[1:01:46]
Adam Haman (voiced / ad read)
Exactly, folks. I knew I was going to like it. After all, I’ve liked Scott. I’ve interviewed him on my show several times. I’ve seen him on long form interviews like on Tucker Carlson. And I just thought, “Oh, this will just be like that, but more so.” And it is that, but it’s even better. Just to give you an example, like Scott goes through a presentation, he’s got multimedia. Like I actually, you can see the video of Saddam Hussein calling off names and having people taken out back. And I don’t think they were given a retirement package. I don’t know exactly what happened. I don’t speak the language, but it didn’t look too good for them. And lots of stuff like clips of Jimmy Carter praising the Shah of Iran, you know, just all kinds of stuff like that really helping you to understand how the heck did we get into this mess. And so I’m—I know it sounds like I’m just saying this for the ad, but it really is true that I’m not going to watch a movie or something later on. I’m going to get back to listening to Scott explain what the heck happened with US foreign policy. So, I can’t recommend it enough. Awesome.
[1:02:46]
Bob Murphy (voiced / ad read)
Remember folks, go to scotthortonacademy.com/crossover and you will get a great discount and Bob and I will get a kickback. So, you will be supporting these crossover episodes.
[1:03:09 – Second Ad]
Bob Murphy (voiced / ad read)
And now, let’s take a break for a totally organic conversation about a great company. Our church has been searching for quality merch that won’t blow the budget. I’ve been hearing great things about the Swan Brothers.
[1:03:21]
Adam Haman (voiced / ad read)
Oh, yeah. What do they offer?
[1:03:27]
Bob Murphy (voiced / ad read)
Premium custom merchandise, screen printing, embroidery, and laser engraving on brands like The North Face, Nike, and Carhartt. I’ve heard they’ll even set up a professional online store at no cost and handle everything end to end, ordering, fulfillment, and even shipping.
[1:03:39]
Adam Haman (voiced / ad read)
Wow, sounds super useful. Who’s a good fit?
[1:03:45]
Bob Murphy (voiced / ad read)
Churches, schools, teams, companies, anybody with an event, any group that needs reliable branded gear, high-quality, quick turnaround in volume pricing. Learn more at theswanbros.com/cross.
[1:03:57]
Bob Murphy (voiced / ad read)
Okay, organic conversation over.
[1:04:15 – Third Ad]
Bob Murphy (voiced / ad read)
Bob, that is fascinating and I want to hear more, but I just can’t get out of my mind how amazing Scott Horton’s new academy is. I think everybody that’s listening to us that wants to support our show should go immediately to scotthortonacademy.com/crossover and sign right up for it.
[1:04:36]
Adam Haman (voiced / ad read)
Yeah, I got my oldest son a subscription for Christmas and he and I are jointly going through Scott’s lecture or course on America’s terror wars and it’s good stuff. It’s good bonding for the kids. So, I highly recommend it for people. Again, if it’s the kind of thing that you know, it’s a good way to get somebody else into it. And I tell you, Scott is very engaging. All right. So, it’s it really is if you get somebody they’re interested in the material, if they start it, they’re going to want to keep going back to it. So, I highly recommend people check it out as do I. And if the good folks want this great information repository and would like to support you and me, they should just go again to scotthortonacademy.com/crossover and sign right up. Going through our link, you’ll get a 10% discount on the annual price and 20% off the lifetime membership, which I heartily recommend. Once again, folks, go to scotthortonacademy.com/crossover.
[1:05:57 – Return from Break / Layout Change]
Sound effects
Heat. Heat. Heat.
[1:07:09]
Tyrone
As soon as Adam can figure this out, we’ll all be back on the screen.
[1:07:15]
Adam Haman
There you go. Good work, Adam. Everybody come around.
[1:07:22]
Tyrone
I can’t hear you, brother. I said, “Hey, get off my lawn.”
[1:07:28]
Adam Haman
This is a different layout that we got going on here. Okay, I like it. It’s kind of Brady Bunch style. I like it.
[1:07:33]
Tyrone
What did we have before? Was it that? Yeah, something like that. I don’t know. Either one’s good with me. It doesn’t matter. All right, Adam.
[1:07:41]
Tyrone
Well, welcome back from the break, everybody. For the two and a half people that stuck with us through the break, thank you for doing that, Adam. Before we announce the winner of our giveaways, we have another guest to bring on. Can we crowd in more people into this thing?
[1:07:58]
Adam Haman
Only one way to find out. Let’s say hello.
[1:08:04]
Tyrone
They said it couldn’t be done, but it’s seven people on one lucky—but I’m sad about you leaving the show. I feel like Alice right now.
[1:08:21]
Jason
Yeah, I’m a little bit sad, too. Yeah, if by whiskey it’s just not the same without me, if I do say so myself.
[1:08:27]
Tyrone
It is not. It is not the same, man. It’s good. It’s not the same. It’s better, actually.
[1:08:35]
Jason
No, brother. Can’t be true. Jason, welcome. Who the goddamn hell are you and why do I have you on my show?
[1:08:47]
Jason
I’m nobody. I’m just a guy that was around during the COVID madness and decided that I had something to say. Started a podcast when it looked like maybe it was coming back around 2023. Had Adam on the show, had Tyrone and Adam again on our If By Whiskey show that I do with Mark Polles there. And yeah, it turns out I think I don’t actually have that much to say. So I’ve been on hiatus for a while and I’m back to learning. But yeah, happy to be here. I do, it’s called Drop the Mask Pod. You’ll see my sweet logo in the background here. I still write a little bit on Substack. I’ve started to do that. It’s free. Go follow me there if anyone wants to.
[1:09:28]
Tyrone
What’s that Substack called?
[1:09:33]
Jason
Drop the maskpod.substack.com.
[1:09:39]
Tyrone
Thank you for joining us. Also, also the If By Whiskey intro, outro, and the Not Conscious intro outro—all Jason’s work. So, kudos on that. The intro is bomber. Everyone gushes over when they see it. So, I told you guys that when I was on the show. It’s way better than the Human Nature intro. So, nice work on that, Tyrone.
[1:09:56]
Jason
But he’s a human and you’re just a porcupine. That’s true. That’s true. Porcupine’s trouble. An unfair advantage, I admit.
[1:10:07]
Tyrone
Yes. Yes. But the hobo gives him a half a point advantage. That’s right. Hobo part kind of a cool Adam.
[1:10:16]
Adam Haman
Yeah, I miss hobos. Do we have winners to announce?
[1:10:21]
Tyrone
All right. I need a drum roll. No, no, no, no, no, no. All right. Not another drum roll. Who do we lose? Oh, we lost Kinsella. Is he gone?
[1:10:31]
Adam Haman
I don’t know. He’ll either pop back or he won’t. That’s exactly right. Before we reveal the winners, I just wanted to read another comment on our—Oh, excellent. This was from when you and I, Tyrone, were criticizing the great and famous and terrible Matt Walsh, saying he was basically a lefty for wanting government intervening and this and that and the other, like any other lefty. So somebody called—this is episode 161. Go check it out. Human Nature. Great episode. So good. So good. Butter your own bagel said, quote, “Hope this video stays in the hundreds of views.” Don’t worry, it will. It’s better than the tens of views.
[1:11:22]
Tyrone
See, this guy doesn’t even know. Triple digits. It’s better than I’ve ever done. So, a Matt Walsh fan. I appreciate that. Yes, we do have winners on the game and I’m calling—
[1:11:33]
Adam Haman
Hang on. Hang on one second. I do want to say, folks, whether you love us or hate us, actually, I love reading the negative comments more than anything. So, bring it.
[1:11:41]
Tyrone
All right, Stephan. Hey, welcome back. Thanks for sticking with us.
[1:11:47]
Stephan Kinsella
All right, Adam. I think his next documentary is What is a Statist? I think is Walsh’s next.
[1:11:53]
Adam Haman
All right, Adam, are you ready? Yes. Who’s the winner? I am calling it on audible just because of the way the scores hand out. We have one clear winner in here and one clear winner in the chat. And so I’m going to gift one of our—
[1:12:14]
Tyrone
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. That’s what I’m doing. Calling it on. It’s your show, man. Calling on. My name on it. So in the chat, the great Brian Dol just crushed the field. So he’s going to be getting a $25 coupon. I mean, after all, you know, I jumped off of Natural Order podcast a little bit and then got in my cigarette butt. I got to give this guy some merch.
[1:12:37]
Adam Haman
All right. All right. All right. The FCC can find us later, I guess. But in the chat, there was also one just clear winner and it was Chuckmoney just demolished the field. I know that guy. Congratulations. Sounds familiar. Chuck on money—shoot me an email [email protected] and I will get you hooked up with your gift certificate to our merch store.
[1:13:18]
Tyrone
What is that merch store? Shop.humanature.com. I tell you, shop at Human Nature. No, wise. Shop.
[1:13:29]
Adam Haman
I tried going there, but it gives me a bunch of Michael Jackson stuff. How is that estate not giving me royalties at this point?
[1:13:41]
Tyrone
All right, Adam, I sent you a text, but you obviously didn’t get it. On air production meeting, remove the background logo, please.
[1:13:46]
Adam Haman
Why that? It’s Human Nature.
[1:13:51]
Tyrone
All right. Where do you want to go? Steer this train wreck.
[1:13:57]
Adam Haman
Oh, yeah. We promised people something so groundbreaking before the break. Something so amazing that this was worth the cost of admission, which was nothing. Which was nothing. Okay. What you pay for Adam, let me set this up a little bit. We have done a couple of what we’ll call cultural critique episodes, right? We talk about Oscar movies or things in the music scene. So, we’ve done a couple episodes now critiquing the conservative rapper Tom MacDonald and celebrating critiquing and celebrating. Yeah, I’m a big fan, but also a critic. He’s a conservative, a MAGA Trump supporter. Obviously, I am not. So, where I agree with him, I praise him. And where I don’t agree. But I also think he’s a very gifted and talented musician. By the way, Adam, he dropped a new video yesterday, so we might have to do another episode on that with our buddy Charles, if he’s available.
[1:14:55]
Tyrone
Anyway, during the Trump campaign, the presidential election campaign last year, he came out with several very political songs. One was called The Devil is a Democrat, which I completely agree with. However, from the libertarian, the porcupine hobo perspective, Republicans are kind of devilish, too. So, Adam had this idea. And Adam, what?
[1:15:28]
Adam Haman
All right. What I did is—hey, Adam, that’s your cue. Hey, Adam. I just thought I had to play the damn video. I didn’t know I had to explain it. So yeah, we critiqued this thing and then I told Grok to rewrite the lyrics of Tom MacDonald’s song, but make it The Devil is Republican. And so it did. It was great. I published that. It was hilarious. And Tyrone had one idea better, which is, hey, let’s set this to music and make a music video, which he did. It’s pretty good. Ladies and gentlemen, the world premiere, the soon-to-be epically viral music video. Ladies and gentlemen, The Devil is a Republican. Woohoo! Hit it, Adam.
[1:16:27 – Music Video Premiere]
Song Lyrics (performed / played)
The one drums beat on every channel. They think I’m blind like the truth, too much to handle. They lock you up for a plant called justice while their cronies cash in private prisons busting. They wave the flag for endless wars. Send your kids to die on foreign shores while their buddies in the Pentagon score. Defense contracts. They want more. They want cameras in your bedroom tracking every move you make. They want freedom in a cage. Call it safety for the state’s sake. They want war. They don’t want peace. They want drones in our streets. They want your life on unleash. Liberty is what they defeat. I swear the devil lives in Washington. He’s a politician. He’s passing laws that crush your rights of patriotic fiction. Yeah, the devil lives in Washington. You should be in prison. He’s got horns, but he hides them with a cross and a mission. Cuz the devil is a Republican and we don’t buy that. They say they love your liberty. We know it ain’t that. The devil is a Republican and we ain’t winning. We ain’t dealing y’all scheming. Freedom’s how we’re living, dog.
They bust your door for a joint, call it law. While the donors get rich, that’s the score. Big Pharma’s pills get a pass. But your herbs are crime. They lock you fast. They want boots in every nation. Bombing dreams for domination. While their corporate friends vacation, sipping wealth from exploitation. They want eyes on every phone. Every text you’re never alone. They want power carved in stone while your rights are overthrown. They want war. They don’t want peace. They want cages, not release. They want freedom on a lease. Liberty is their enemy. I swear the devil lives in Washington. He’s a politician. He’s passing laws across the right patriotic fiction. Yeah. The devil lives in Washington. Should be in prison. He’s got horns, but he hides them with a cross and a mission. The devil is a Republican and we don’t buy that. They say he love your liberty. We know it ain’t that. The devil is a republican and we ain’t with it. We ain’t dealing. How are scheming freedoms how we’re living dog?
The devil is a Republican. That’s the truth. That’s a fact. They lock you up for weed while the cronies got your back. The devil is a Republican. It’s a rap. It ain’t no. They sell your free. That’s the proof. I swear the devil lives in Washington. Million dollar deals. He’s got buddies in the boardrooms. Power is all he feels. Gives you promises of safety. Just sign away your will for your soul and your vote. It’s a deal. Cuz the devil is a Republican and we don’t buy that. They say they love your liberty. We know it ain’t that. The devil is a Republican and we ain’t with it. We ain’t kneeling. Y’all are scheming. Freedoms how we’re living. The devil is a Republican and we don’t play that. They claim that for the free man. You know it. Ate that.
[1:19:32]
Tyrone
That’s pretty catchy. All right, folks. Spread that is going to hit YouTube immediately following this live stream. Follow it, like it, share it, because the devil is a Republican and a Democrat and some other things. There might be some additional songs coming. Adam and what we might call a trilogy.
[1:19:56]
Adam Haman
Oh my lord. Well, I know viral.
[1:20:01]
Tyrone
Yeah, right. Sure. Sure. Daisy, if I know anything about going viral and I don’t that’s gonna definitely do numbers for you. It’s going to blow up.
[1:20:14]
Adam Haman
Well, Dave Smith is gonna tweet that. Dave Smith’s going to retweet that and you’ll be fine. Clint Russell. Oh, it was awesome, though. Awesome.
[1:20:20]
Tyrone
Yeah, Tyrone really nailed it on that, I think. Before we continue, while we’re all feeling so special about the new Human Nature Productions, Human Nature Records. There you go. Records. I know it’s an old timey term. I want to come back to Earth with a couple more comments on YouTube when we were attacking Matt Walsh. Oh, here’s a fella called Johnstandup-K2P to differentiate him from all the other John Stand whatevers. Quote, “One channel stealing another channel’s content, recycling it, and acting like they’re important.” Laugh emoji.
[1:21:05]
Tyrone
Thank you for that, John. Thank you, John. That was awesome. I appreciate it. There’s one more. Nobody does that on social media. I replied I said you’re describing the entire YouTube that’s everything.
[1:21:22]
Tyrone
He said, “No, that’s one of the losers.” Here’s another one. Same episode. Fellow named Robert West4596. Quote, “What a couple of bozos. Quit while you’re behind.” Why did you post mine? Why did you have to find my stream, guys? Why did you do that? I can’t believe you me. You exposed me. I was anonymous until just now. Mark’s so famous. He’s got a burner account. That’s very numbers. You mean the 22 subscribers to our YouTube channel if I wish you?
[1:21:59]
Adam Haman
Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. So, thank you commenters. Adam, Stephan, are you good to hang with us for a bit longer? What’s your schedule like?
[1:22:05]
Stephan Kinsella
Oh, good. Okay. Says, “I really want Adam or sorry, I really want Stephan to be a part of our brand new segment that we’re going to debut.” And I’d move it up in the agenda if Stephan couldn’t hang around, but since he seems like he’s good, let’s switch to another topic. Adam, what do you feel about Epstein files? Anybody got any thoughts on that or is that just old news?
[1:22:31]
Adam Haman
I don’t know. I gotta go. Never heard of it. Whoa. It’s a hoax. Hey, can you give us a hoax, Jason? Can you give us a little bit about who’s saying it was a hoax and all that stuff? Remember, you do that really well.
[1:22:48]
Jason
Oh, you’re talking to me. Oh, yeah. Give me a second. Give it to us, man. I know you didn’t warm up, but come on. I got to hear it. I missed it. I don’t know what to say. Give me a minute. Come back. Are you saying he’s got a good Trump impersonation? Okay, we’re going to circle back to you, Jason. Stephan, I feel like I haven’t heard your sweet voice in a while. Just hit us with some knowledge, man. What do you got to say? Knowledge, huh?
[1:23:18]
Stephan Kinsella
You know, to me detail, it’s just a detail. I think it’s a distraction, you know, from the problem which is taxation and war and the state regulations. I mean, I don’t really care what happened 15 years ago with Epstein. I’m not surprised that all these powerful corrupt people are involved with him. And trying to cover for each other. Now, you know, I don’t buy the eating babies kind of conspiracy stuff too much, but I guess I’m just not following it too much. I’m more interested in lowering my goddamn taxes.
[1:24:02]
Tyrone
Figures that the guy in the tux is trying to make this thing all go away. Okay. Okay. Anybody else following the deep conspiracy stuff, the Candace stuff, the Tucker stuff? Anybody follow going down that rabbit hole at all?
[1:24:12]
Mark Polles
I follow it all. I follow it all. Doesn’t mean I believe it, but I follow it. I watch it all cuz I—And to counter that, if I may, something about this is like this reminds me I was a pilot at one point and you had a plane crash. This is the plane crash, right? What you’re saying is pilot error. That doesn’t stop the initial thing from existing, right? So, this thing still happening even without Epstein. Let’s be clear that this didn’t just—oh, yeah. Let’s put a pin in it cuz this dude unalived himself per Kash’s cross-eyed view and Dan Bongino, you know, like it’s there’s something deeper here because it’s a continual thing. It just changes the figure heads.
[1:24:59]
Brian O’Leary
Yeah, I guess I got some thoughts. The idea this conspiracy is like one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard of, frankly. And there’s a lot of them to keep track of. And one of them being the fact that he was murdered. There’s no evidence.
[1:25:20]
Brian O’Leary
It’s fun to think that he was murdered. And I think a lot of these things, you know, build upon that. But, you know, I just think that all the evidence points to the fact that he hung himself. And, you know, he was a bad guy, convicted once, about to be convicted again, I think, was the whole thing. And, you know, he ran out of steam, hung himself. He knew that. I mean, let’s put it this way. If he knew that he had Trump by the shortened curies or anybody else by the shortened curies, he would have done it years ago. And so I think all this conspiracy stuff just falls from, you know, the fact that, you know, maybe consensus here is that he was killed. I don’t believe that. But, you know, like a lot of conspiracy theories, I think they’re fun to think about and I think the story would be better if it were true. I just don’t believe it to be true.
[1:26:27]
Tyrone
Let’s get away for a second from forget the what happened in that jail cell cuz Brian’s right. We don’t know. We all have theories based on there’s some suspicious stuff though. There are for sure and there’s on camera watching it just happen to go out and sleeping. I’m curious from Brian’s perspective what he thinks about the truth of what Epstein was like. What has he been doing for these last 25 years or something? Total mystery and I get that you know the all the suspicion is warranted. I mean the guy was a mysterious guy that you know morphed between powerful people and who knows how he did it. I can’t remember what podcast laid it out. It might have been Daryl Cooper or one of these guys, but laid out a whole story, you know, and he has his origins as like a math teacher or something at a prep school that was founded by Bill Barr, you know, like so like my point is that all these you can pull on some of these strings and they would make a great story, but it’s still a mystery on who this Epstein fellow was and what he was doing with all these people.
[1:27:50]
Brian O’Leary
One thing that is with these files, releasing these files, and I think the biggest problem I have with the files being released is that a lot of people, I wouldn’t say good people, but a lot of people’s names are being sullied just by being mentioned. For instance, Bill Gates, who is a loathsome creature. I have nothing particularly good to say about him except I’m on a Microsoft computer right now. Nothing particularly good to say about the guy, but he, you know, this whole idea that he sent an email or there was some email about him getting drugs for this STD that he got from a hooker in Russia and put it in his wife’s drink or something. That email was never in the file. It was a draft that Epstein had written and never sent.
[1:28:39]
Brian O’Leary
So, it was in Epstein’s files. And so, you know, Bill Gates’s ex-wife was on this thing and that some she got asked a question about this and she was very vague about it. Why shouldn’t she be vague about it? It’s probably not true, you know, because the way he this Epstein fellow was able to blackmail or get influence with all these people. Who knows? I mean, he was a magician at all that stuff like so of this being in the files doesn’t mean that it was true. And I think a lot of people, and I believe that’s why Trump didn’t want these released because he’s going to be mentioned all over the thing. I mean, Epstein and Trump were chummy at one point for crying out loud.
[1:29:21]
Tyrone
Speaking of a magician, one of our commenters in the chat has a question for Brian. It says, “What makes you think this guy’s dead?” He thinks he’s dead. What makes you think Epstein’s dead?
[1:29:34]
Brian O’Leary
Well, I mean to avoid going to reductio ad Hitlerum the which he’s having he’s drinking mai tais in—I mean did Hitler kill himself or did Hitler go to Argentina? I mean it go him going to Argentina is a way better story. Don’t get me wrong. It’s a way better story. It just didn’t happen.
[1:29:55]
Tyrone
Let me move it over to—oh, by the way, I’m a total conspiracy theorist. So, I’m going to be honest. Get the conspiracies out.
[1:30:06]
Mark Polles
I do have two questions for Brian, if I may. I do have two questions for Brian. If I may. Two questions for Brian. No. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, go ahead, Mark. Well, the thing is like I’m just Robert Maxwell’s daughter who’s with this guy who also didn’t unalive himself, right, Brian? Is can not connected to the guy. And then the second question is what we were told by the cross-eyed freak and cuck Bongino are lies. They’re just lies. So why should anyone believe it without any speculation is my question. So I lean 51-49 on the unaliving or on him not being or being unalive not unaliveing himself if that makes sense.
[1:30:56]
Tyrone
Oh we lose Brian. I think Brian to a friend. That’s a great question. He’s at a loss for I love it and I love a good debate, but this is the 200. Sorry, I lost. No, no. You guys are supposed to be telling us how awesome we are the whole time. Let’s do it another day. Yeah, let’s do another You guys are awesome. 200, man. Congratul Let’s shift gears, man. I’m bipolar. Let’s do it. I can get lay off the lithium for a couple hours.
[1:31:22]
Tyrone
This makes me want to bring Mark Maresca into the—Absolutely. Eminem hasn’t spoken enough. Eminem and White Pills, Mark, the specific question I have for you is exactly how great is the Human Nature Show?
[1:31:38]
Mark Maresca
So good that it takes 200 episodes to get it this good in quality, production quality. That’s how good it is. I feel like that’s a very twisty curvy compliment, but thank you, Mark. Glad you asked.
[1:31:58]
Tyrone
Brian, are you unglitching?
[1:32:04]
Adam Haman
Adam, let’s move on to something else here. We are we’re going on here.
[1:32:09]
Adam Haman
While you think of where we’re going to move, I got some more quotes. Some more comments.
[1:32:15]
Tyrone
All right. Hey, man. Nature episode 98. Bob Murphy, the great Bob Murphy and I were talking about Trump’s economic policies and we got this comment by at Eric Skeptical who says quote lol Democrats opinions at this point aren’t worth jack shit.
[1:32:43]
Tyrone
You’re called a libtard then a Nazi and then a lefty and then a you know fascist. Right. Is that we do It’s great when we’re called everything across the spectrum. Just call us.
[1:32:55]
Tyrone
Let me give you one more. It’s on the other side of the scale. When Robbie the Fire Bernstein was so magnanimous to come on my show and let me interview him. Episode 140. A fellow named Jack Burton806 said, quote, “I was surprised to find a YouTube channel with less views and subs than Robbie reflexes.”
[1:33:22]
Tyrone
Then he says, “Both are criminally ignored.” So, a little bit of this and then a compliment. So thank you so much. I love the haters because you know don’t hate the player, hate the game type of thing.
[1:33:45]
Tyrone
All right. Adam, I’m going to call audible myself. Let’s move on to our brand new segment since we still have Stephan here because I feel like of the group assembled and no offense to anybody else but Stephan is definitely the one most economically knowledgeable among us to be able to explain libertarian Misesian Austrian economics here. Stephan, I don’t want to speak for you, but you do consider yourself a Misesian Austrian.
[1:34:12]
Stephan Kinsella
Yes.
[1:34:17]
Tyrone
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Would you say you’re more Mises Rothbard?
[1:34:23]
Stephan Kinsella
Um, I know you’re a big student of you know how they have brain farts sometimes on
[1:34:36]
Tyrone
Thank you. Good lord. I know. I know where you I know where you’re going with this.
[1:34:42]
Adam Haman
Oh my god, the pressure the stress of live streaming is getting to me, Adam. Normally, I sit behind computer in my pajamas editing the shows.
[1:34:50]
Tyrone
All right. Yes. So, do you really feel like there’s a difference? Let me ask this general question and then Stephan, we’re going to get into something a little more specific. General question. Mises, Hayek, Rothbard, Hoppe. Do you really see them as different? Like where’s the overlap? Would you say they’re 90% with minor differences between a radical difference between Rothbard and say Hoppe? You asking in economics or in political philosophy or I’m just going to let Stephan interpret that question.
[1:35:30]
Stephan Kinsella
Okay. Yeah, I’ll give you I’m actually So, right now I’m working on this book. We’re doing a book in honor of Rothbard’s 100th birthday which is March 2nd next month and we’re going to release it that day. Hoppe and I are putting it together and I’m working on my chapter right now which is basically the title is Mises Rothbard and Hoppe the indispensable framework and in my view those are the three most important thinkers in the Austro-libertarian tradition. Not Hayek I’m actually not a fan of Hayek I think what was good in Hayek was just sort of a mealy-mouthed warmed over Mises and the rest is not that good. I mean I’m not a Hayekian at all. I’m not a fan of Hayek. I think he’s a dilettante and murky and confused and just wrong. He’s not even a libertarian. Not even hardly a classical liberal.
[1:36:25]
Stephan Kinsella
Now I think to my mind the strength of Rothbard and Mises is embodied in Hoppe. Hoppe took what was really good in Mises, which was his praxeology and his economic methodology and he took Rothbard’s radical libertarian anti-state politics and Rothbard also based his economics on Mises. But I think Rothbard did not emphasize scarcity as much as Mises did and as much as Hoppe did. So I think that those three together are the most important foundation for the way I think we need to see the social structure of the world.
[1:37:08]
Tyrone
Okay, that was super deep. So I’ve heard that criticism of Hayek before, Stephan, and I agree. However, I think he did do some good work. If you’re not going to dismiss all my understanding is he did some good work on capital theory which apparently I read and I haven’t read much of that. I haven’t read much of the detailed technical economics on capital theory. I think he did start to debunk Keynesianism. I don’t think he quite finished. He started to do some decent work on business cycle theory for which he won the Nobel Prize. But that was just basically Mises’s kind of idea, right? His knowledge stuff and his politics and his legislation theory are all over the map. So I’m just not a huge Hayek fan to be honest.
[1:37:58]
Tyrone
So when that documentary I’m sure you’ve seen it the Commanding Heights that PBS did probably 30 years ago now where they were contrasting Keynes and Hayek right as the two post-World War II thinkers that shaped economics. You’re really—is you am I interpreting you to say correctly that you’re really thinking that Hayek really wasn’t that much different from Keynes?
[1:38:25]
Stephan Kinsella
No, I think that like the video series based kind of based on that the rap videos that John Papola did Hayek versus Keynes those were great amazing videos and they showed the difference between sort of the Keynesian approach and the kind of Austrian approach of Hayek which was a combination of Hayek’s knowledge stuff but also the Mises stuff about the importance of private property and prices and the business cycle theory. So, I’d say two-thirds of the Hayek stuff presented in that video was solid because it was rooted in Austrian economics and classical liberalism economics.
[1:39:06]
Tyrone
Do you think The Road to Serfdom then was just sort of rehashed Mises stuff or I mean when I tried to read that book I mean he’s got some good stuff about why the worst rise to the top. I couldn’t finish the book. I was drinking beer in spring break in Florida at the time, so I can’t really blame him.
[1:39:30]
Tyrone
You’re burying the lead. What’s the plan? You’re burying the lead. What are we drinking right now?
[1:39:35]
Stephan Kinsella
Right now, big boo boo is drinking water. Well, Stephan, you recently gave up alcohol, right?
[1:39:41]
Stephan Kinsella
As I did. I haven’t drank in over a year and lost some weight in good shape. So I’m congratulations to you for that. However, I mean to each their own.
[1:39:56]
Tyrone
To each his own so yeah I think so I actually I’ve even Milton Friedman I liked in the beginning and I still admire him and he was a major influence but in retrospect now I’ve learned a lot more. I’ve read like Hoppe’s and Walter Block’s criticism of Hayek with fresh eyes and you know they just go through a litany of what you might want to call deviations of Hayek on a lot of welfare. Hayek basically thought that any legislation was fine even if it was welfare legislation as long as it was prospective in general. I mean, okay, so he was against special interest legislation and retroactive legislation, but he’s not really in a principled way against neither was Milton Friedman, but I mean Milton Friedman was in favor of negative income tax and welfare. Although I think Friedman was kind of a pretty good libertarian overall. He didn’t have a good foundation for argument for it except for ignorance. But Hayek, I don’t just don’t know why people think of Hayek as a libertarian anymore. I’m so I don’t learn much from Hayek.
[1:41:07]
Tyrone
So, no, I agree. I remember reading The Road to Serfdom and it’s all really good. It goes on explaining why, you know, the government can’t work. You can’t do anything through government. And then at the end, or the last couple of chapters, I think he makes an exception for, I don’t know, national defense. I can’t remember exactly what it was, but I was just like, “What the hell? You just explained exactly why this doesn’t work and now you’re saying, ‘Well, here’s one exception.'”
[1:41:38]
Tyrone
Now, Brian, I’m going to ask a question here that I’m going to expect you’re going to give a different answer from everybody else on. So, I’m a little curious to know what the answer is here. Okay, everybody raise your hand if you are an anarchist.
[1:41:52]
Various
Okay. Okay.
[1:41:57]
Tyrone
So, Brian, you’re definitely from what I know about you, again, this—hang on a second, hang on just a second. I refuse to let this moment pass without letting his hand raise his hand. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. Where’s the applause? I need the applause.
[1:42:16]
Tyrone
Brother, author of Good Neighbor, Bad Citizen. I highly recommend you check that book out. Thank you for joining us, Bo.
[1:42:27]
Dominic Scarcella
I’ve been tuning in for the past a little more than an hour and enjoying the show and just kind of waiting for a time to join the call. Adam had said yeah, I mean, you can join whenever, maybe try to make be here for the last half. So, I’ve been watching and listening and enjoying the banter. So, thank you for coming. I just want you to raise your hand like a beautiful anarchist.
[1:42:51]
Dominic Scarcella
There you go. Now, first of all, I think Tyrone’s a fed because he just got us to dox ourselves. Yeah. Right, right, right, right. Give me your addresses, your credit card numbers. No. This is so special for me because I’ve only like I feel like I’ve vicariously met a lot of you through editing the show. So, Dominic, nice to meet you virtually for the first time.
[1:43:18]
Dominic Scarcella
Same here. Same here. Well, Brian just sent me—oh, yeah. No, no problem. No problem, Brian. But let’s see. Well, you know how you lose your train of thought. Adam bailed me out. Somebody bail me out.
[1:43:41]
Tyrone
I’ll bail you out. I want to hear Brian’s answer. He’s ganged up on by all these lunatic anarchists who think we can have roads without the state, but I want to hear although I think he’s got reinforcements with Dominic. Dominic, you would not consider yourself to be an anarchist.
[1:43:55]
Dominic Scarcella
Yes, he is. I do. I’m a political anarchist. Yes.
[1:44:00]
Tyrone
Okay. All right. Yeah, stand corrected. Brian, you’re solo, man. You’re on a lone island.
[1:44:06]
Brian O’Leary
All right. All right. Yeah, complicated answer. I mean, I tend to be sympathetic to a lot of stuff you guys talk about. The Dan McCarthy on Modern Age podcast last week or the week before, he had a show. His tag on Twitter and maybe all social media is Tory Anarchist. So, he laid that out how those things are being a Tory and being an anarchist are, you know, do not really mix yet. He laid out a pretty good case why he is. And I tend to be more on that end of the things, but I would encourage you guys to go listen to Dan’s discussion of that. It’s pretty interesting.
[1:44:57]
Tyrone
So what I heard is I’ve got really good reasons. So, I’m just not going to tell you.
[1:45:05]
Brian O’Leary
Well, I would say I think order is much more important than liberty in a functioning society. And if we want the society not to function, then you know full-fledged liberty is fine and everybody gets what they want. They don’t think order is more important than liberty.
[1:45:30]
Tyrone
Good point, Brian. Thank you. Don’t pile on. I need to pause the—oh, no. Oh, dear God, no. We had—you know that scene in Crimson Tide when the guy’s trying to get the radio to work and he’s like, “Scotty, we need more power. We need more power.” Two hours, Captain. All right. For hold up. For a half a second, we had Doc Dixon coming back. He’s trying his best. He’s on a cruise ship somewhere. But hey, Doc Dixon. Holy crap. We got so many people here. It’s fantastic. Hold on, Adam. We got to give everybody a chance to plug their stuff. Dominic, who are you? Why should people know who you are?
[1:46:10]
Dominic Scarcella
Well, there’s no real reason why people should know who I am.
[1:46:17]
Tyrone
Okay. Well, that’s not true. Dominic has an amazing Substack, amazing show. Tell us all about it.
[1:46:23]
Dominic Scarcella
I write the Good Neighbor Bad Citizen Substack where I write weekly and I podcast weekly. It grew out of a short book I wrote in the fall of 2023 by the same title, Good Neighbor, Bad Citizen. I explore the deep and logical and beautiful harmony between genuine early church Christianity and anarchism volunteerism.
[1:46:52]
Tyrone
Dominic, I gotta say that was one of my favorite episodes. You know, I don’t agree with you, let’s say, theologically or from that perspective or whatever, right? I’m not a religious type person, but I really feel like you are a deep thinker. And anybody interested in philosophy, deep thoughts, your Substack is definitely worth a read. If nothing else, you know, to get the old brain juices flowing.
[1:47:15]
Tyrone
And I love his name because it’s scarcity. It sounds like Kinsella with scarcity. So, hey, kind of.
[1:47:28]
Dominic Scarcella
Thanks.
[1:47:35]
Tyrone
Hey, before two good combinations before the great Doc Dixon loses connection again. Doc, say hello to everybody.
[1:47:40]
Doc Dixon
Thank you, Doc. Say hello. Hey, Doc. What’s up, Doc? What’s up, Doc? Hey, everybody. Is this working? Yes. Yes. Yes. Why am I here? I’m literally on the—well, not literally.
[1:47:59]
Tyrone
Oh, no. I want to take time.
[1:48:04]
Doc Dixon
Oh, I want this to work so bad. Does everybody know who Doc Dixon is?
[1:48:12]
Tyrone
Yeah, I met him at Tom Woods house. So, Doc Dixon is a famous magician. Yeah. Yeah. He fooled Pen and Teller. He’s currently trying to join us from a cruise ship. Is that right, Doc? Or Pittsburgh.
[1:48:18]
Doc Dixon
Yeah, I’m I’ll be on the Woods cruise coming up this summer. But you know, I’m often referred to people that like my magic is the Adam Haman of magic.
[1:48:32]
Tyrone
Yes. But that’s the only people that like me.
[1:48:37]
Doc Dixon
I actually have trademarked that—not because I want to, but it’ll irk Stephan.
[1:48:48]
Stephan Kinsella
No, it’s okay.
[1:48:54]
Doc Dixon
Anyway, I think I just wanted to pop in though because Adam graciously invited me. But I gotta go, guys. Adam, keep up your awesome work, brother.
[1:49:00]
Adam Haman
Thank you, Doc. Thank you so much, Doc. You’re the best.
[1:49:06]
Tyrone
Thank you. Byebye. Oh, that’s awesome. I didn’t know if he was going to be able to join us at all, but that was great.
[1:49:13]
Adam Haman
Oh, that’s fantastic. All right, Adam, we are approaching two hours here. I think it is time for us to reveal a brand new segment on Human Nature.
[1:49:21]
Tyrone
Are you ready?
[1:49:26]
Adam Haman
I’m ready. Okay. I’m not sure I’m ready because we got to play like you know, Adam, can we take another break, guys? Can you stick around for a little bit longer? Is everybody good? Another like 20-25 minutes or so?
[1:49:38]
Various
Sure. Would that be okay?
[1:49:43]
Adam Haman
Adam, can we do another break quick?
[1:49:49]
Tyrone
Of course. All right, guys. We’re going to take another break. Hit just hit that break thing. We’ll be right back in five minutes and then we’re going to reveal a brand new segment on Human Nature. You’re not going to want to miss this one, folks. Porcupines have tiny bladders. I’ll see you all in just a few minutes.
[1:49:46 – Second Break & Ads]
Bob Murphy (voiced / ad read)
Bob, before we continue, I want to have a completely natural, totally spontaneous discussion about how awesome the new Scott Horton Academy is and why everybody listening should go to scotthortonacademy.com/crossover and immediately sign up for it.
[1:51:01]
Adam Haman (voiced / ad read)
Exactly, folks. I knew I was going to like it. After all, I’ve liked Scott. I’ve interviewed him on my show several times. I’ve seen him on long form interviews like on Tucker Carlson. And I just thought, “Oh, this will just be like that, but more so.” And it is that, but it’s even better. Just to give you an example, like Scott goes through a presentation, he’s got multimedia. Like I actually, you can see the video of Saddam Hussein calling off names and having people taken out back. And I don’t think they were given a retirement package. I don’t know exactly what happened. I don’t speak the language, but it didn’t look too good for them. and lots of stuff like clips of Jimmy Carter praising the Shah of Iran, you know, just all kinds of stuff like that really helping you to understand how the heck did we get into this mess. And so I know it sounds like I’m just saying this for the ad, but it really is true that I’m not going to watch a movie or something later on. I’m going to get back to listen to Scott explain what the heck happened with US foreign policy. So, I can’t recommend it enough.
[1:51:59]
Bob Murphy (voiced / ad read)
Awesome. Remember folks, go to scotthortonacademy.com/crossover and you will get a great discount and Bob and I will get a kickback. So, you will be supporting these crossover episodes.
[1:52:52 – Second Ad]
Bob Murphy (voiced / ad read)
And now, let’s take a break for a totally organic conversation about a great company. Our church has been searching for quality merch that won’t blow the budget. I’ve been hearing great things about the Swan Brothers.
[1:53:21]
Adam Haman (voiced / ad read)
Oh, yeah. What do they offer? Premium custom merchandise, screen printing, embroidery, and laser engraving on brands like The North Face, Nike, and Carhartt. I’ve heard they’ll even set up a professional online store at no cost and handle everything end to end. Ordering, fulfillment, and even shipping.
[1:53:39]
Bob Murphy (voiced / ad read)
Wow, sounds super useful. Who’s a good fit? Churches, schools, teams, companies, anybody with an event, any group that needs reliable branded gear, high-quality, quick turnaround in volume pricing. Learn more at theswanbros.com/cross.
[1:53:57]
Bob Murphy (voiced / ad read)
Okay, organic conversation over.
[1:54:15 – Third Ad]
Bob Murphy (voiced / ad read)
Bob, that is fascinating and I want to hear more, but I just can’t get out of my mind how amazing Scott Horton’s new academy is. I think everybody that’s listening to us that wants to support our show should go immediately to scotthortonacademy.com/crossover and sign right up for it.
[1:54:36]
Adam Haman (voiced / ad read)
Yeah, I got my oldest son a subscription for Christmas. and he and I are jointly going through Scott’s lecture or course on America’s terror wars. And it’s good stuff. It’s good bonding for the kids. So, I highly recommend it for people. Again, if it’s the kind of thing that you know, it’s a good way to get somebody else into it. And I tell you, Scott is very engaging, right? So, it’s it really is if you get somebody they’re interested in the material, if they start it, they’re going to want to keep going back to it. So, I highly recommend people check it out as do I. And if the good folks want this great information repository and would like to support you and me, they should just go again to scotthortonacademy.com/crossover and sign right up. Going through our link, you’ll get a 10% discount on the annual price and 20% off the lifetime membership, which I heartily recommend. Once again, folks, go to scotthortonacademy.com/crossover.
[1:55:57 – Return from Break / Layout Change]
Sound effects
Heat. Heat.
[1:57:01]
Tyrone
All right, welcome back. Thanks for hanging with us everybody. All right. If you are just tuning in, we are celebrating the 200th episode of Human Nature. What? when you hit a thousand. We ain’t got the money. We ain’t got the budget for that. By the
[1:57:01 – Return from Break / Layout Change / Guest Banter & Closing]
Sound effects
Heat. Heat.
[1:57:09]
Tyrone
As soon as Adam can figure this out, we’ll all be back on the screen.
[1:57:15]
Adam Haman
There you go. Good work, Adam. Everybody come around.
[1:57:22]
Tyrone
I can’t hear you, brother. I said, “Hey, get off my lawn.”
[1:57:28]
Adam Haman
This is a different layout that we got going on here. Okay, I like it. It’s kind of Brady Bunch style. I like it.
[1:57:33]
Tyrone
What did we have before? Was it that? Yeah, something like that. I don’t know. Either one’s good with me. It doesn’t matter. All right, Adam.
[1:57:41]
Tyrone
Well, welcome back from the break, everybody. For the two and a half people that stuck with us through the break, thank you for doing that, Adam. Before we announce the winner of our giveaways, we have another guest to bring on. Can we crowd in more people into this thing?
[1:57:58]
Adam Haman
Only one way to find out. Let’s say hello.
[1:58:04]
Tyrone
They said it couldn’t be done, but it’s seven people on one lucky—but I’m sad about you leaving the show. I feel like Alice right now.
[1:58:21]
Jason
Yeah, I’m a little bit sad, too. Yeah, if by whiskey it’s just not the same without me, if I do say so myself.
[1:58:27]
Tyrone
It is not. It is not the same, man. It’s good. It’s not the same. It’s better, actually.
[1:58:35]
Jason
No, brother. Can’t be true. Jason, welcome. Who the goddamn hell are you and why do I have you on my show?
[1:58:47]
Jason
I’m nobody. I’m just a guy that was around during the COVID madness and decided that I had something to say. Started a podcast when it looked like maybe it was coming back around 2023. Had Adam on the show, had Tyrone and Adam again on our If By Whiskey show that I do with Mark Polles there. And yeah, it turns out I think I don’t actually have that much to say. So I’ve been on hiatus for a while and I’m back to learning. But yeah, happy to be here. I do, it’s called Drop the Mask Pod. You’ll see my sweet logo in the background here. I still write a little bit on Substack. I’ve started to do that. It’s free. Go follow me there if anyone wants to.
[1:59:28]
Tyrone
What’s that Substack called?
[1:59:33]
Jason
Drop the maskpod.substack.com.
[1:59:39]
Tyrone
Thank you for joining us. Also, also the If By Whiskey intro, outro, and the Not Conscious intro outro—all Jason’s work. So, kudos on that. The intro is bomber. Everyone gushes over when they see it. So, I told you guys that when I was on the show. It’s way better than the Human Nature intro. So, nice work on that, Tyrone.
[1:59:56]
Jason
But he’s a human and you’re just a porcupine. That’s true. That’s true. Porcupine’s trouble. An unfair advantage, I admit.
[2:00:07]
Tyrone
Yes. Yes. But the hobo gives him a half a point advantage. That’s right. Hobo part kind of a cool Adam.
[2:00:16]
Adam Haman
Yeah, I miss hobos. Do we have winners to announce?
[2:00:21]
Tyrone
All right. I need a drum roll. No, no, no, no, no, no. All right. Not another drum roll. Who do we lose? Oh, we lost Kinsella. Is he gone?
[2:00:31]
Adam Haman
I don’t know. He’ll either pop back or he won’t. That’s exactly right. Before we reveal the winners, I just wanted to read another comment on our—Oh, excellent. This was from when you and I, Tyrone, were criticizing the great and famous and terrible Matt Walsh, saying he was basically a lefty for wanting government intervening and this and that and the other, like any other lefty. So somebody called—this is episode 161. Go check it out. Human Nature. Great episode. So good. So good. Butter your own bagel said, quote, “Hope this video stays in the hundreds of views.” Don’t worry, it will. It’s better than the tens of views.
[2:01:22]
Tyrone
See, this guy doesn’t even know. Triple digits. It’s better than I’ve ever done. So, a Matt Walsh fan. I appreciate that. Yes, we do have winners on the game and I’m calling—
[2:01:33]
Adam Haman
Hang on. Hang on one second. I do want to say, folks, whether you love us or hate us, actually, I love reading the negative comments more than anything. So, bring it.
[2:01:41]
Tyrone
All right, Stephan. Hey, welcome back. Thanks for sticking with us.
[2:01:47]
Stephan Kinsella
All right, Adam. I think his next documentary is What is a Statist? I think is Walsh’s next.
[2:01:53]
Adam Haman
All right, Adam, are you ready? Yes. Who’s the winner? I am calling it on audible just because of the way the scores hand out. We have one clear winner in here and one clear winner in the chat. And so I’m going to gift one of our—
[2:02:14]
Tyrone
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. That’s what I’m doing. Calling it on. It’s your show, man. Calling on. My name on it. So in the chat, the great Brian Dol just crushed the field. So he’s going to be getting a $25 coupon. I mean, after all, you know, I jumped off of Natural Order podcast a little bit and then got in my cigarette butt. I got to give this guy some merch.
[2:02:37]
Adam Haman
All right. All right. All right. The FCC can find us later, I guess. But in the chat, there was also one just clear winner and it was Chuckmoney just demolished the field. I know that guy. Congratulations. Sounds familiar. Chuck on money—shoot me an email [email protected] and I will get you hooked up with your gift certificate to our merch store.
[2:03:18]
Tyrone
What is that merch store? Shop.humanature.com. I tell you, shop at Human Nature. No, wise. Shop.
[2:03:29]
Adam Haman
I tried going there, but it gives me a bunch of Michael Jackson stuff. How is that estate not giving me royalties at this point?
[2:03:41]
Tyrone
All right, Adam, I sent you a text, but you obviously didn’t get it. On air production meeting, remove the background logo, please.
[2:03:46]
Adam Haman
Why that? It’s Human Nature.
[2:03:51]
Tyrone
All right. Where do you want to go? Steer this train wreck.
[2:03:57]
Adam Haman
Oh, yeah. We promised people something so groundbreaking before the break. Something so amazing that this was worth the cost of admission, which was nothing. Which was nothing. Okay. What you pay for Adam, let me set this up a little bit. We have done a couple of what we’ll call cultural critique episodes, right? We talk about Oscar movies or things in the music scene. So, we’ve done a couple episodes now critiquing the conservative rapper Tom MacDonald and celebrating critiquing and celebrating. Yeah, I’m a big fan, but also a critic. He’s a conservative, a MAGA Trump supporter. Obviously, I am not. So, where I agree with him, I praise him. And where I don’t agree. But I also think he’s a very gifted and talented musician. By the way, Adam, he dropped a new video yesterday, so we might have to do another episode on that with our buddy Charles, if he’s available.
[2:04:55]
Tyrone
Anyway, during the Trump campaign, the presidential election campaign last year, he came out with several very political songs. One was called The Devil is a Democrat, which I completely agree with. However, from the libertarian, the porcupine hobo perspective, Republicans are kind of devilish, too. So, Adam had this idea. And Adam, what?
[2:05:28]
Adam Haman
All right. What I did is—hey, Adam, that’s your cue. Hey, Adam. I just thought I had to play the damn video. I didn’t know I had to explain it. So yeah, we critiqued this thing and then I told Grok to rewrite the lyrics of Tom MacDonald’s song, but make it The Devil is Republican. And so it did. It was great. I published that. It was hilarious. And Tyrone had one idea better, which is, hey, let’s set this to music and make a music video, which he did. It’s pretty good. Ladies and gentlemen, the world premiere, the soon-to-be epically viral music video. Ladies and gentlemen, The Devil is a Republican. Woohoo! Hit it, Adam.
[2:06:27 – Music Video Premiere]
Song Lyrics (performed / played)
The one drums beat on every channel. They think I’m blind like the truth, too much to handle. They lock you up for a plant called justice while their cronies cash in private prisons busting. They wave the flag for endless wars. Send your kids to die on foreign shores while their buddies in the Pentagon score. Defense contracts. They want more. They want cameras in your bedroom tracking every move you make. They want freedom in a cage. Call it safety for the state’s sake. They want war. They don’t want peace. They want drones in our streets. They want your life on unleash. Liberty is what they defeat. I swear the devil lives in Washington. He’s a politician. He’s passing laws that crush your rights of patriotic fiction. Yeah, the devil lives in Washington. You should be in prison. He’s got horns, but he hides them with a cross and a mission. Cuz the devil is a Republican and we don’t buy that. They say they love your liberty. We know it ain’t that. The devil is a Republican and we ain’t winning. We ain’t dealing y’all scheming. Freedom’s how we’re living, dog.
They bust your door for a joint, call it law. While the donors get rich, that’s the score. Big Pharma’s pills get a pass. But your herbs are crime. They lock you fast. They want boots in every nation. Bombing dreams for domination. While their corporate friends vacation, sipping wealth from exploitation. They want eyes on every phone. Every text you’re never alone. They want power carved in stone while your rights are overthrown. They want war. They don’t want peace. They want cages, not release. They want freedom on a lease. Liberty is their enemy. I swear the devil lives in Washington. He’s a politician. He’s passing laws across the right patriotic fiction. Yeah. The devil lives in Washington. Should be in prison. He’s got horns, but he hides them with a cross and a mission. The devil is a Republican and we don’t buy that. They say he love your liberty. We know it ain’t that. The devil is a republican and we ain’t with it. We ain’t dealing. How are scheming freedoms how we’re living dog?
The devil is a Republican. That’s the truth. That’s a fact. They lock you up for weed while the cronies got your back. The devil is a Republican. It’s a rap. It ain’t no. They sell your free. That’s the proof. I swear the devil lives in Washington. Million dollar deals. He’s got buddies in the boardrooms. Power is all he feels. Gives you promises of safety. Just sign away your will for your soul and your vote. It’s a deal. Cuz the devil is a Republican and we don’t buy that. They say they love your liberty. We know it ain’t that. The devil is a Republican and we ain’t with it. We ain’t kneeling. Y’all are scheming. Freedoms how we’re living. The devil is a Republican and we don’t play that. They claim that for the free man. You know it. Ate that.
[2:09:32]
Tyrone
That’s pretty catchy. All right, folks. Spread that is going to hit YouTube immediately following this live stream. Follow it, like it, share it, because the devil is a Republican and a Democrat and some other things. There might be some additional songs coming. Adam and what we might call a trilogy.
[2:09:56]
Adam Haman
Oh my lord. Well, I know viral.
[2:10:01]
Tyrone
Yeah, right. Sure. Sure. Daisy, if I know anything about going viral and I don’t that’s gonna definitely do numbers for you. It’s going to blow up.
[2:10:14]
Adam Haman
Well, Dave Smith is gonna tweet that. Dave Smith’s going to retweet that and you’ll be fine. Clint Russell. Oh, it was awesome, though. Awesome.
[2:10:20]
Tyrone
Yeah, Tyrone really nailed it on that, I think. Before we continue, while we’re all feeling so special about the new Human Nature Productions, Human Nature Records. There you go. Records. I know it’s an old timey term. I want to come back to Earth with a couple more comments on YouTube when we were attacking Matt Walsh. Oh, here’s a fella called Johnstandup-K2P to differentiate him from all the other John Stand whatevers. Quote, “One channel stealing another channel’s content, recycling it, and acting like they’re important.” Laugh emoji.
[2:11:05]
Tyrone
Thank you for that, John. Thank you, John. That was awesome. I appreciate it. There’s one more. Nobody does that on social media. I replied I said you’re describing the entire YouTube that’s everything.
[2:11:22]
Tyrone
He said, “No, that’s one of the losers.” Here’s another one. Same episode. Fellow named Robert West4596. Quote, “What a couple of bozos. Quit while you’re behind.” Why did you post mine? Why did you have to find my stream, guys? Why did you do that? I can’t believe you me. You exposed me. I was anonymous until just now. Mark’s so famous. He’s got a burner account. That’s very numbers. You mean the 22 subscribers to our YouTube channel if I wish you?
[2:11:59]
Adam Haman
Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. So, thank you commenters. Adam, Stephan, are you good to hang with us for a bit longer? What’s your schedule like?
[2:12:05]
Stephan Kinsella
Oh, good. Okay. Says, “I really want Adam or sorry, I really want Stephan to be a part of our brand new segment that we’re going to debut.” And I’d move it up in the agenda if Stephan couldn’t hang around, but since he seems like he’s good, let’s switch to another topic. Adam, what do you feel about Epstein files? Anybody got any thoughts on that or is that just old news?
[2:12:31]
Adam Haman
I don’t know. I gotta go. Never heard of it. Whoa. It’s a hoax. Hey, can you give us a hoax, Jason? Can you give us a little bit about who’s saying it was a hoax and all that stuff? Remember, you do that really well.
[2:12:48]
Jason
Oh, you’re talking to me. Oh, yeah. Give me a second. Give it to us, man. I know you didn’t warm up, but come on. I got to hear it. I missed it. I don’t know what to say. Give me a minute. Come back. Are you saying he’s got a good Trump impersonation? Okay, we’re going to circle back to you, Jason. Stephan, I feel like I haven’t heard your sweet voice in a while. Just hit us with some knowledge, man. What do you got to say? Knowledge, huh?
[2:13:18]
Stephan Kinsella
You know, to me detail, it’s just a detail. I think it’s a distraction, you know, from the problem which is taxation and war and the state regulations. I mean, I don’t really care what happened 15 years ago with Epstein. I’m not surprised that all these powerful corrupt people are involved with him. And trying to cover for each other. Now, you know, I don’t buy the eating babies kind of conspiracy stuff too much, but I guess I’m just not following it too much. I’m more interested in lowering my goddamn taxes.
[2:14:02]
Tyrone
Figures that the guy in the tux is trying to make this thing all go away. Okay. Okay. Anybody else following the deep conspiracy stuff, the Candace stuff, the Tucker stuff? Anybody follow going down that rabbit hole at all?
[2:14:12]
Mark Polles
I follow it all. I follow it all. Doesn’t mean I believe it, but I follow it. I watch it all cuz I—And to counter that, if I may, something about this is like this reminds me I was a pilot at one point and you had a plane crash. This is the plane crash, right? What you’re saying is pilot error. That doesn’t stop the initial thing from existing, right? So, this thing still happening even without Epstein. Let’s be clear that this didn’t just—oh, yeah. Let’s put a pin in it cuz this dude unalived himself per Kash’s cross-eyed view and Dan Bongino, you know, like it’s there’s something deeper here because it’s a continual thing. It just changes the figure heads.
[2:14:59]
Brian O’Leary
Yeah, I guess I got some thoughts. The idea this conspiracy is like one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard of, frankly. And there’s a lot of them to keep track of. And one of them being the fact that he was murdered. There’s no evidence.
[2:15:20]
Brian O’Leary
It’s fun to think that he was murdered. And I think a lot of these things, you know, build upon that. But, you know, I just think that all the evidence points to the fact that he hung himself. And, you know, he was a bad guy, convicted once, about to be convicted again, I think, was the whole thing. And, you know, he ran out of steam, hung himself. He knew that. I mean, let’s put it this way. If he knew that he had Trump by the shortened curies or anybody else by the shortened curies, he would have done it years ago. And so I think all this conspiracy stuff just falls from, you know, the fact that, you know, maybe consensus here is that he was killed. I don’t believe that. But, you know, like a lot of conspiracy theories, I think they’re fun to think about and I think the story would be better if it were true. I just don’t believe it to be true.
[2:16:27]
Tyrone
Let’s get away for a second from forget the what happened in that jail cell cuz Brian’s right. We don’t know. We all have theories based on there’s some suspicious stuff though. There are for sure and there’s on camera watching it just happen to go out and sleeping. I’m curious from Brian’s perspective what he thinks about the truth of what Epstein was like. What has he been doing for these last 25 years or something? Total mystery and I get that you know the all the suspicion is warranted. I mean the guy was a mysterious guy that you know morphed between powerful people and who knows how he did it. I can’t remember what podcast laid it out. It might have been Daryl Cooper or one of these guys, but laid out a whole story, you know, and he has his origins as like a math teacher or something at a prep school that was founded by Bill Barr, you know, like so like my point is that all these you can pull on some of these strings and they would make a great story, but it’s still a mystery on who this Epstein fellow was and what he was doing with all these people.
[2:17:50]
Brian O’Leary
One thing that is with these files, releasing these files, and I think the biggest problem I have with the files being released is that a lot of people, I wouldn’t say good people, but a lot of people’s names are being sullied just by being mentioned. For instance, Bill Gates, who is a loathsome creature. I have nothing particularly good to say about him except I’m on a Microsoft computer right now. Nothing particularly good to say about the guy, but he, you know, this whole idea that he sent an email or there was some email about him getting drugs for this STD that he got from a hooker in Russia and put it in his wife’s drink or something. That email was never in the file. It was a draft that Epstein had written and never sent.
[2:18:39]
Brian O’Leary
So, it was in Epstein’s files. And so, you know, Bill Gates’s ex-wife was on this thing and that some she got asked a question about this and she was very vague about it. Why shouldn’t she be vague about it? It’s probably not true, you know, because the way he this Epstein fellow was able to blackmail or get influence with all these people. Who knows? I mean, he was a magician at all that stuff like so of this being in the files doesn’t mean that it was true. And I think a lot of people, and I believe that’s why Trump didn’t want these released because he’s going to be mentioned all over the thing. I mean, Epstein and Trump were chummy at one point for crying out loud.
[2:19:21]
Tyrone
Speaking of a magician, one of our commenters in the chat has a question for Brian. It says, “What makes you think this guy’s dead?” He thinks he’s dead. What makes you think Epstein’s dead?
[2:19:34]
Brian O’Leary
Well, I mean to avoid going to reductio ad Hitlerum the which he’s having he’s drinking mai tais in—I mean did Hitler kill himself or did Hitler go to Argentina? I mean it go him going to Argentina is a way better story. Don’t get me wrong. It’s a way better story. It just didn’t happen.
[2:19:55]
Tyrone
Let me move it over to—oh, by the way, I’m a total conspiracy theorist. So, I’m going to be honest. Get the conspiracies out.
[2:20:06]
Mark Polles
I do have two questions for Brian, if I may. I do have two questions for Brian. If I may. Two questions for Brian. No. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, go ahead, Mark. Well, the thing is like I’m just Robert Maxwell’s daughter who’s with this guy who also didn’t unalive himself, right, Brian? Is can not connected to the guy. And then the second question is what we were told by the cross-eyed freak and cuck Bongino are lies. They’re just lies. So why should anyone believe it without any speculation is my question. So I lean 51-49 on the unaliving or on him not being or being unalive not unaliveing himself if that makes sense.
[2:20:56]
Tyrone
Oh we lose Brian. I think Brian to a friend. That’s a great question. He’s at a loss for I love it and I love a good debate, but this is the 200. Sorry, I lost. No, no. You guys are supposed to be telling us how awesome we are the whole time. Let’s do it another day. Yeah, let’s do another You guys are awesome. 200, man. Congratul Let’s shift gears, man. I’m bipolar. Let’s do it. I can get lay off the lithium for a couple hours.
[2:21:22]
Tyrone
This makes me want to bring Mark Maresca into the—Absolutely. Eminem hasn’t spoken enough. Eminem and White Pills, Mark, the specific question I have for you is exactly how great is the Human Nature Show?
[2:21:38]
Mark Maresca
So good that it takes 200 episodes to get it this good in quality, production quality. That’s how good it is. I feel like that’s a very twisty curvy compliment, but thank you, Mark. Glad you asked.
[2:21:58]
Tyrone
Brian, are you unglitching?
[2:22:04]
Adam Haman
Adam, let’s move on to something else here. We are we’re going on here.
[2:22:09]
Adam Haman
While you think of where we’re going to move, I got some more quotes. Some more comments.
[2:22:15]
Tyrone
All right. Hey, man. Nature episode 98. Bob Murphy, the great Bob Murphy and I were talking about Trump’s economic policies and we got this comment by at Eric Skeptical who says quote lol Democrats opinions at this point aren’t worth jack shit.
[2:22:43]
Tyrone
You’re called a libtard then a Nazi and then a lefty and then a you know fascist. Right. Is that we do It’s great when we’re called everything across the spectrum. Just call us.
[2:22:55]
Tyrone
Let me give you one more. It’s on the other side of the scale. When Robbie the Fire Bernstein was so magnanimous to come on my show and let me interview him. Episode 140. A fellow named Jack Burton806 said, quote, “I was surprised to find a YouTube channel with less views and subs than Robbie reflexes.”
[2:23:22]
Tyrone
Then he says, “Both are criminally ignored.” So, a little bit of this and then a compliment. So thank you so much. I love the haters because you know don’t hate the player, hate the game type of thing.
[2:23:45]
Tyrone
All right. Adam, I’m going to call audible myself. Let’s move on to our brand new segment since we still have Stephan here because I feel like of the group assembled and no offense to anybody else but Stephan is definitely the one most economically knowledgeable among us to be able to explain libertarian Misesian Austrian economics here. Stephan, I don’t want to speak for you, but you do consider yourself a Misesian Austrian.
[2:24:12]
Stephan Kinsella
Yes.
[2:24:17]
Tyrone
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Would you say you’re more Mises Rothbard?
[2:24:23]
Stephan Kinsella
Um, I know you’re a big student of you know how they have brain farts sometimes on
[2:24:36]
Tyrone
Thank you. Good lord. I know. I know where you I know where you’re going with this.
[2:24:42]
Adam Haman
Oh my god, the pressure the stress of live streaming is getting to me, Adam. Normally, I sit behind computer in my pajamas editing the shows.
[2:24:50]
Tyrone
All right. Yes. So, do you really feel like there’s a difference? Let me ask this general question and then Stephan, we’re going to get into something a little more specific. General question. Mises, Hayek, Rothbard, Hoppe. Do you really see them as different? Like where’s the overlap? Would you say they’re 90% with minor differences between a radical difference between Rothbard and say Hoppe? You asking in economics or in political philosophy or I’m just going to let Stephan interpret that question.
[2:25:30]
Stephan Kinsella
Okay. Yeah, I’ll give you I’m actually So, right now I’m working on this book. We’re doing a book in honor of Rothbard’s 100th birthday which is March 2nd next month and we’re going to release it that day. Hoppe and I are putting it together and I’m working on my chapter right now which is basically the title is Mises Rothbard and Hoppe the indispensable framework and in my view those are the three most important thinkers in the Austro-libertarian tradition. Not Hayek I’m actually not a fan of Hayek I think what was good in Hayek was just sort of a mealy-mouthed warmed over Mises and the rest is not that good. I mean I’m not a Hayekian at all. I’m not a fan of Hayek. I think he’s a dilettante and murky and confused and just wrong. He’s not even a libertarian. Not even hardly a classical liberal.
[2:26:25]
Stephan Kinsella
Now I think to my mind the strength of Rothbard and Mises is embodied in Hoppe. Hoppe took what was really good in Mises, which was his praxeology and his economic methodology and he took Rothbard’s radical libertarian anti-state politics and Rothbard also based his economics on Mises. But I think Rothbard did not emphasize scarcity as much as Mises did and as much as Hoppe did. So I think that those three together are the most important foundation for the way I think we need to see the social structure of the world.
[2:27:08]
Tyrone
Okay, that was super deep. So I’ve heard that criticism of Hayek before, Stephan, and I agree. However, I think he did do some good work. If you’re not going to dismiss all my understanding is he did some good work on capital theory which apparently I read and I haven’t read much of that. I haven’t read much of the detailed technical economics on capital theory. I think he did start to debunk Keynesianism. I don’t think he quite finished. He started to do some decent work on business cycle theory for which he won the Nobel Prize. But that was just basically Mises’s kind of idea, right? His knowledge stuff and his politics and his legislation theory are all over the map. So I’m just not a huge Hayek fan to be honest.
[2:27:58]
Tyrone
So when that documentary I’m sure you’ve seen it the Commanding Heights that PBS did probably 30 years ago now where they were contrasting Keynes and Hayek right as the two post-World War II thinkers that shaped economics. You’re really—is you am I interpreting you to say correctly that you’re really thinking that Hayek really wasn’t that much different from Keynes?
[2:28:25]
Stephan Kinsella
No, I think that like the video series based kind of based on that the rap videos that John Papola did Hayek versus Keynes those were great amazing videos and they showed the difference between sort of the Keynesian approach and the kind of Austrian approach of Hayek which was a combination of Hayek’s knowledge stuff but also the Mises stuff about the importance of private property and prices and the business cycle theory. So, I’d say two-thirds of the Hayek stuff presented in that video was solid because it was rooted in Austrian economics and classical liberalism economics.
[2:29:06]
Tyrone
Do you think The Road to Serfdom then was just sort of rehashed Mises stuff or I mean when I tried to read that book I mean he’s got some good stuff about why the worst rise to the top. I couldn’t finish the book. I was drinking beer in spring break in Florida at the time, so I can’t really blame him.
[2:29:30]
Tyrone
You’re burying the lead. What’s the plan? You’re burying the lead. What are we drinking right now?
[2:29:35]
Stephan Kinsella
Right now, big boo boo is drinking water. Well, Stephan, you recently gave up alcohol, right?
[2:29:41]
Stephan Kinsella
As I did. I haven’t drank in over a year and lost some weight in good shape. So I’m congratulations to you for that. However, I mean to each their own.
[2:29:56]
Tyrone
To each his own so yeah I think so I actually I’ve even Milton Friedman I liked in the beginning and I still admire him and he was a major influence but in retrospect now I’ve learned a lot more. I’ve read like Hoppe’s and Walter Block’s criticism of Hayek with fresh eyes and you know they just go through a litany of what you might want to call deviations of Hayek on a lot of welfare. Hayek basically thought that any legislation was fine even if it was welfare legislation as long as it was prospective in general. I mean, okay, so he was against special interest legislation and retroactive legislation, but he’s not really in a principled way against neither was Milton Friedman, but I mean Milton Friedman was in favor of negative income tax and welfare. Although I think Friedman was kind of a pretty good libertarian overall. He didn’t have a good foundation for argument for it except for ignorance. But Hayek, I don’t just don’t know why people think of Hayek as a libertarian anymore. I’m so I don’t learn much from Hayek.
[2:31:07]
Tyrone
So, no, I agree. I remember reading The Road to Serfdom and it’s all really good. It goes on explaining why, you know, the government can’t work. You can’t do anything through government. And then at the end, or the last couple of chapters, I think he makes an exception for, I don’t know, national defense. I can’t remember exactly what it was, but I was just like, “What the hell? You just explained exactly why this doesn’t work and now you’re saying, ‘Well, here’s one exception.'”
[2:31:38]
Tyrone
Now, Brian, I’m going to ask a question here that I’m going to expect you’re going to give a different answer from everybody else on. So, I’m a little curious to know what the answer is here. Okay, everybody raise your hand if you are an anarchist.
[2:31:52]
Various
Okay. Okay.
[2:31:57]
Tyrone
So, Brian, you’re definitely from what I know about you, again, this—hang on a second, hang on just a second. I refuse to let this moment pass without letting his hand raise his hand. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. Where’s the applause? I need the applause.
[2:32:16]
Tyrone
Brother, author of Good Neighbor, Bad Citizen. I highly recommend you check that book out. Thank you for joining us, Bo.
[2:32:27]
Dominic Scarcella
I’ve been tuning in for the past a little more than an hour and enjoying the show and just kind of waiting for a time to join the call. Adam had said yeah, I mean, you can join whenever, maybe try to make be here for the last half. So, I’ve been watching and listening and enjoying the banter. So, thank you for coming. I just want you to raise your hand like a beautiful anarchist.
[2:32:51]
Dominic Scarcella
There you go. Now, first of all, I think Tyrone’s a fed because he just got us to dox ourselves. Yeah. Right, right, right, right. Give me your addresses, your credit card numbers. No. This is so special for me because I’ve only like I feel like I’ve vicariously met a lot of you through editing the show. So, Dominic, nice to meet you virtually for the first time.
[2:33:18]
Dominic Scarcella
Same here. Same here. Well, Brian just sent me—oh, yeah. No, no problem. No problem, Brian. But let’s see. Well, you know how you lose your train of thought. Adam bailed me out. Somebody bail me out.
[2:33:41]
Tyrone
I’ll bail you out. I want to hear Brian’s answer. He’s ganged up on by all these lunatic anarchists who think we can have roads without the state, but I want to hear although I think he’s got reinforcements with Dominic. Dominic, you would not consider yourself to be an anarchist.
[2:33:55]
Dominic Scarcella
Yes, he is. I do. I’m a political anarchist. Yes.
[2:34:00]
Tyrone
Okay. All right. Yeah, stand corrected. Brian, you’re solo, man. You’re on a lone island.
[2:34:06]
Brian O’Leary
All right. All right. Yeah, complicated answer. I mean, I tend to be sympathetic to a lot of stuff you guys talk about. The Dan McCarthy on Modern Age podcast last week or the week before, he had a show. His tag on Twitter and maybe all social media is Tory Anarchist. So, he laid that out how those things are being a Tory and being an anarchist are, you know, do not really mix yet. He laid out a pretty good case why he is. And I tend to be more on that end of the things, but I would encourage you guys to go listen to Dan’s discussion of that. It’s pretty interesting.
[2:34:57]
Tyrone
So what I heard is I’ve got really good reasons. So, I’m just not going to tell you.
[2:35:05]
Brian O’Leary
Well, I would say I think order is much more important than liberty in a functioning society. And if we want the society not to function, then you know full-fledged liberty is fine and everybody gets what they want. They don’t think order is more important than liberty.
[2:35:30]
Tyrone
Good point, Brian. Thank you. Don’t pile on. I need to pause the—oh, no. Oh, dear God, no. We had—you know that scene in Crimson Tide when the guy’s trying to get the radio to work and he’s like, “Scotty, we need more power. We need more power.” Two hours, Captain. All right. For hold up. For a half a second, we had Doc Dixon coming back. He’s trying his best. He’s on a cruise ship somewhere. But hey, Doc Dixon. Holy crap. We got so many people here. It’s fantastic. Hold on, Adam. We got to give everybody a chance to plug their stuff. Dominic, who are you? Why should people know who you are?
[2:36:10]
Dominic Scarcella
Well, there’s no real reason why people should know who I am.
[2:36:17]
Tyrone
Okay. Well, that’s not true. Dominic has an amazing Substack, amazing show. Tell us all about it.
[2:36:23]
Dominic Scarcella
I write the Good Neighbor Bad Citizen Substack where I write weekly and I podcast weekly. It grew out of a short book I wrote in the fall of 2023 by the same title, Good Neighbor, Bad Citizen. I explore the deep and logical and beautiful harmony between genuine early church Christianity and anarchism volunteerism.
[2:36:52]
Tyrone
Dominic, I gotta say that was one of my favorite episodes. You know, I don’t agree with you, let’s say, theologically or from that perspective or whatever, right? I’m not a religious type person, but I really feel like you are a deep thinker. And anybody interested in philosophy, deep thoughts, your Substack is definitely worth a read. If nothing else, you know, to get the old brain juices flowing.
[2:37:15]
Tyrone
And I love his name because it’s scarcity. It sounds like Kinsella with scarcity. So, hey, kind of.
[2:37:28]
Dominic Scarcella
Thanks.
[2:37:35]
Tyrone
Hey, before two good combinations before the great Doc Dixon loses connection again. Doc, say hello to everybody.
[2:37:40]
Doc Dixon
Thank you, Doc. Say hello. Hey, Doc. What’s up, Doc? What’s up, Doc? Hey, everybody. Is this working? Yes. Yes. Yes. Why am I here? I’m literally on the—well, not literally.
[2:37:59]
Tyrone
Oh, no. I want to take time.
[2:38:04]
Doc Dixon
Oh, I want this to work so bad. Does everybody know who Doc Dixon is?
[2:38:12]
Tyrone
Yeah, I met him at Tom Woods house. So, Doc Dixon is a famous magician. Yeah. Yeah. He fooled Pen and Teller. He’s currently trying to join us from a cruise ship. Is that right, Doc? Or Pittsburgh.
[2:38:18]
Doc Dixon
Yeah, I’m I’ll be on the Woods cruise coming up this summer. But you know, I’m often referred to people that like my magic is the Adam Haman of magic.
[2:38:32]
Tyrone
Yes. But that’s the only people that like me.
[2:38:37]
Doc Dixon
I actually have trademarked that—not because I want to, but it’ll irk Stephan.
[2:38:48]
Stephan Kinsella
No, it’s okay.
[2:38:54]
Doc Dixon
Anyway, I think I just wanted to pop in though because Adam graciously invited me. But I gotta go, guys. Adam, keep up your awesome work, brother.
[2:39:00]
Adam Haman
Thank you, Doc. Thank you so much, Doc. You’re the best.
[2:39:06]
Tyrone
Thank you. Byebye. Oh, that’s awesome. I didn’t know if he was going to be able to join us at all, but that was great.
[2:39:13]
Adam Haman
Oh, that’s fantastic. All right, Adam, we are approaching two hours here. I think it is time for us to reveal a brand new segment on Human Nature.
[2:39:21]
Tyrone
Are you ready?
[2:39:26]
Adam Haman
I’m ready. Okay. I’m not sure I’m ready because we got to play like you know, Adam, can we take another break, guys? Can you stick around for a little bit longer? Is everybody good? Another like 20-25 minutes or so?
[2:39:38]
Various
Sure. Would that be okay?
[2:39:43]
Adam Haman
Adam, can we do another break quick?
[2:39:49]
Tyrone
Of course. All right, guys. We’re going to take another break. Hit just hit that break thing. We’ll be right back in five minutes and then we’re going to reveal a brand new segment on Human Nature. You’re not going to want to miss this one, folks. Porcupines have tiny bladders. I’ll see you all in just a few minutes.
[1:39:46 – Final Break & Ads (Repeated for Emphasis)]
Bob Murphy (voiced / ad read)
Bob, before we continue, I want to have a completely natural, totally spontaneous discussion about how awesome the new Scott Horton Academy is and why everybody listening should go to scotthortonacademy.com/crossover and immediately sign up for it.
[1:41:01]
Adam Haman (voiced / ad read)
Exactly, folks. I knew I was going to like it. After all, I’ve liked Scott. I’ve interviewed him on my show several times. I’ve seen him on long form interviews like on Tucker Carlson. And I just thought, “Oh, this will just be like that, but more so.” And it is that, but it’s even better. Just to give you an example, like Scott goes through a presentation, he’s got multimedia. Like I actually, you can see the video of Saddam Hussein calling off names and having people taken out back. And I don’t think they were given a retirement package. I don’t know exactly what happened. I don’t speak the language, but it didn’t look too good for them. and lots of stuff like clips of Jimmy Carter praising the Shah of Iran, you know, just all kinds of stuff like that really helping you to understand how the heck did we get into this mess. And so I know it sounds like I’m just saying this for the ad, but it really is true that I’m not going to watch a movie or something later on. I’m going to get back to listen to Scott explain what the heck happened with US foreign policy. So, I can’t recommend it enough.
[1:41:59]
Bob Murphy (voiced / ad read)
Awesome. Remember folks, go to scotthortonacademy.com/crossover and you will get a great discount and Bob and I will get a kickback. So, you will be supporting these crossover episodes.
[1:42:52 – Second Ad]
Bob Murphy (voiced / ad read)
And now, let’s take a break for a totally organic conversation about a great company. Our church has been searching for quality merch that won’t blow the budget. I’ve been hearing great things about the Swan Brothers.
[1:43:21]
Adam Haman (voiced / ad read)
Oh, yeah. What do they offer? Premium custom merchandise, screen printing, embroidery, and laser engraving on brands like The North Face, Nike, and Carhartt. I’ve heard they’ll even set up a professional online store at no cost and handle everything end to end. Ordering, fulfillment, and even shipping.
[1:43:39]
Bob Murphy (voiced / ad read)
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[1:43:57]
Bob Murphy (voiced / ad read)
Okay, organic conversation over.
[1:44:15 – Third Ad]
Bob Murphy (voiced / ad read)
Bob, that is fascinating and I want to hear more, but I just can’t get out of my mind how amazing Scott Horton’s new academy is. I think everybody that’s listening to us that wants to support our show should go immediately to scotthortonacademy.com/crossover and sign right up for it.
[1:44:36]
Adam Haman (voiced / ad read)
Yeah, I got my oldest son a subscription for Christmas. and he and I are jointly going through Scott’s lecture or course on America’s terror wars. And it’s good stuff. It’s good bonding for the kids. So, I highly recommend it for people. Again, if it’s the kind of thing that you know, it’s a good way to get somebody else into it. And I tell you, Scott is very engaging, right? So, it’s it really is if you get somebody they’re interested in the material, if they start it, they’re going to want to keep going back to it. So, I highly recommend people check it out as do I. And if the good folks want this great information repository and would like to support you and me, they should just go again to scotthortonacademy.com/crossover and sign right up. Going through our link, you’ll get a 10% discount on the annual price and 20% off the lifetime membership, which I heartily recommend. Once again, folks, go to scotthortonacademy.com/crossover.
[1:45:57 – Final Return / Closing Banter & Sign-off]
Sound effects
Heat. Heat.
[1:47:01]
Tyrone
All right, welcome back. Thanks for hanging with us everybody. All right. If you are just tuning in, we are celebrating the 200th episode of Human Nature. What? when you hit a thousand. We ain’t got the money. We ain’t got the budget for that. By the time you get to a thousand, you’ll have it. You’ll get there. Well, let’s see. Two years, 200 episodes. We still haven’t monetized YouTube yet, but we’re getting there, folks. One subscriber. By the way, I’m making less money and I’ve got more episodes.
[1:47:45]
Tyrone
Yeah. So, I By the way, if you’re like Brian O’Leary and haven’t hit the subscribe button yet, please do so.
[1:48:03]
Brian O’Leary
Brian, great recommendation. I realized I was not subscribed. I’ve loved you guys forever. I watch you guys all the time. I was not subscribed.
[1:48:08]
Tyrone
Brian, thank you so much for saying that. I did subscribe. Everyone subscribe, dude. Human Nature.
[1:48:15]
Adam Haman
Thank you for the totally organic endorsement there, brother. I endorse that as well. Whoa, Stephan. Whoa. Do the same do the same thing at Ryan on YouTube. Also,
[1:48:27]
Tyrone
Hey, man. Plug your stuff, guys. Stephan’s putting a hat on top hat. What’s going on? The four pop collars, bro. That’s bad. It’s not good. Crazy. Just crazy. Here, you know, what are you doing, Stephan? Ladies and gentlemen, for our 200th episode, I want to give the fans out there a little treat, a little behind the scenes in the podcasting universe. I don’t know if you know that, but most people, including the guys wearing tuxedos and suits and ties when they’re podcasting, they don’t ever wear anything on the lower half of their body. So, if everybody could just stand up and show everybody what what we’re all doing here, everybody just just rise up with Yeah. Just dangle, flop, whatever you do, just do just stand up.
[1:49:12]
Tyrone
What happened with that news guy who was doing that thing? Tubin. All right, Adam. He’s doing Look at I wore my church, too, baby. I wore my church sweats for you guys. Damn. Just so you know, I am truly naked. I’m not standing up. I was kidding. I’m happy to show you proof of life, man. It’s cool. Stephan, you win the award for best dressed. I have never been so impressed. That’s Adam’s and Tyrone’s honor. Okay. I can’t believe you dressed up like this for us. Tyrone, would you like to showcase what we’re going to start doing in the future?
[1:49:51]
Tyrone
Yes. So, we have had many sort of fun segments on Human Nature. You may be familiar with our segment, Heyo, your fly is down, which is a great segment. We’ve also done a segment called Hey, you should check that out. We are unveiling a brand new segment. Now, raise your hand here, guys, if you are fans of the show It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
[1:50:25]
Various
Okay, I got a couple of fans. I got a couple fans down. Okay. Okay, fair enough. Fair enough.
[1:50:32]
Tyrone
It’s one of Adam and mine’s favorite shows. Really? Wow. Oh, well. Okay. I have an original Patty’s story in Philadelphia, but yeah, it’s a great show. Okay. Okay. Okay. So, what Adam and I thought would be funny is if we decide So, okay.
[1:50:56]
Jason
Uh Jason and Mark, wait, did Joe Pesci just join the show? He’s like, “Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. The utes. The utes.” Okay. What’s a ute? What’s a Eminem? Eminem Mark Maresca, not not your show, but Mark P and Jason when I was on your guys show we talked about economics and you guys were giving us crap giving me crap about how Adam and I read through the book called Economics in Three Lessons. I know it was a little tongue and cheek. We were just joking with it and you know why are you guys doing this? You know, we had economics in one lesson. Why do you have to review economics in three lessons? So, we’ve read through the whole book. We did a whole series on it. And you know, it’s a little dry. It’s a little intellectual. It’s a little you know, not not for not for everybody. Not not for the masses. And so Adam and I, you know, it’s always been our intention with this show to appeal to the remnant one day, right?
[1:51:44]
Tyrone
That, you know, we want to put some knowledge out there in the world that future generations can use. But we understand and it’s one of the reasons why we did that music video. We understand that culture is the way to really communicate these ideas to the masses. Right? So, Adam and I after getting done with the book economics in three lessons, we’re like, you know, that was great, but how can we really promote libertarian Misesian Austrian economic theories in a fun way, in a way that more people will understand and maybe glob on to. And I don’t know, Adam, how we started or how we got on the joke of It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia, but it’s one of our favorite shows. And we’re like, what if we took the show, It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia, and used the show to explain economic principles. And thus, we have come up with a brand new segment called, and this is where I put up the still image. Hold on a second. Hold on a second. I need to get the music.
[1:53:02]
Music sting
It’s Always Anarchy in Philadelphia.
[1:53:17]
Tyrone
I love this episode because now I get to let my Philadelphia accent come out because I’ve been holding on to this for about three years now. You guys don’t even know that I actually talk like this, but when I talk on a podcast, I don’t even like that at all.
[1:53:34]
Mark Polles
Mark, from my heart, you’re pure Philly trash right now. Just trash. That is how bad was that? Do you know how many years? The Eagle. The Eagles. What are you talking about over there? You don’t even have macaroni and gravy where you’re from. You don’t even know what it’s about. The craziest action. It’s impossible to get and hard to get out. It took decades, guys. What’d you say, Stephan?
[1:53:54]
Stephan Kinsella
I said that sounds like Kate Winslet trying to do a North Carolina accent. She’s trying. Yeah, she tried it, too. Water. We still drink water. It’s ridiculous. All right. She tried to move to Phoenix and hide it, but we know what you are, Mark.
[1:54:13]
Tyrone
All right, we want everybody to chime in on this, but Stephan, we’re gonna lean on you a little bit as our economic theorist powerhouse here. We’re going to play a clip from It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia, the show, and talk about the economics of what they’re talking about and how to interpret it, discuss it, use it to promote libertarian, Misesian, Austrian, whatever, blah blah blah. You’re making the clip. You’re making the one guy who gave a thumbs down do this. That’s right. Goddamn it. That’s that Hey, that’s just because I lived in Philly for three years. But I the show is cute. I will say it’s cute. We’ll have a mistake argument later.
[1:54:49]
Tyrone
Also, in addition to the economic analysis, because there is room for some, we’re going to need you to give us some advice on how to avoid all the IP infringement that we’re going to encounter in this segment. So, the music, the song that they use, the one I just played, is not original to them. Nice. I have bought the rights to play it. Nice. Nice. I created the logo. It’s Always Anarchy in Philadelphia on my own independently. Nice. No AI involved whatsoever.
[1:55:22]
Tyrone
No AI involved, brother. Uhhuh. I know someone’s work around. Huh. Someone’s work around over here. Works around hardest. And it’s brilliant, by the way. All right. We’re going to want to hear from all of you, but especially Stephan. Here we go. Just tell me to shut up. It’s okay.
[1:55:41 – Clip from It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia Plays]
Clip audio
Did you ever see Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? No. The cartoon was excellent and the movies were even like more well refined. The price of these suckers. Never saw it. What are you guys looking at? Oh, new couches. We got rid of the old one, but the prices are insane. That’s nuts, man. I think we should just rent like we did the last time, you know. Wait, you rented your sofa? Yeah. I mean, all we did was pay the interest. How much was the interest? Oh, was nothing. It was like like 25 bucks a week. How long did you have it? 15 years. 15 years. Yeah, bro. You spent close to $20,000 on a couch you never owned. 20,000? No. Where you get that from? No. 52 weeks a year. $25 a week. 15 years. $19,500. That seems odd. That’s pretty bad business, fellas.
I don’t understand why prices are so high right now. Inflation. Right. Yeah. Oh, well, right. Inflation. Yeah. Because of the inflation. You guys do understand what inflation is, right? Inflation. Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. But for the sake of argument. Yeah. Pretend we don’t. Inflation is when the price of goods and services go up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, thank God. Hey, I’m being evicted. The landlord, he jacked up my rent and I can’t pay. Now, listen. I have glued my hand to the door, so they can’t physically remove me. Just a second, Deandra. See, inflation happens when there’s more demand than there is supply. Yes. I don’t think they’re You want me You want me to walk them through it? Yeah. Shut up, Charlie. You don’t understand any of that. That’s not true, dude. I’ve learned a lot about business living with Frank. You know, I know stuff. Also, speaking of, I got an investment idea that I’d love to pitch you guys if I do not. All right.
Charlie, we don’t want to hear it. Frank, keep going. Well, you see, the government tries to curb inflation by raising interest rates so that people borrow less and spend less. Okay. So, if prices are going up, could we get a raise? No. Well, you see, if I raise your wages, then you’d have more money. Yeah. And that in this case is not good. You know, it would increase inflation. Yeah. And we don’t want that to increase, right? So, maybe what we would need to do is lower our wages. I get it. But that would cause a recession. Yeah. Which could lead to a depression. So you can, but you can’t do that. Of course, take a pay cut or a raise. No, that’s money talk. Yeah, that’s money talk right there. That’s money talk. Usually it boils down to your nut, right? Like how much nut do you go through a month, right? Are you stirring up your nut or you just blowing through it? Like Okay. Um, how much nut do you guys blow through in a month? I don’t want to talk to you about Yeah, I figured you were, man. So, you got you got to try to hang on to some of that nut, otherwise it’s all gone. Well, that’s the screwy thing about it. Money isn’t as valuable as it always was. And money is not as valuable, right? How can the value of money be different? Money is money. No. A buck is not worth a buck. No, no, no. It’s worth 25 cents. A dollar is worth 25 cents. Yeah, but I’ll give you 50 cents for a buck. Hey, I think that sounds like a good deal. Yeah. Huh?
Frank, you got to wire me money. They’re destroying my Okay, you know what? I only have a 10. I give you a five. That’s morning talk. Nice. Yeah.
[2:09:08]
Tyrone
Well, so that’s how inflation works, everybody.
[2:09:15]
Tyrone
All right. You want my take? Brilliant. Yep. Tell us about inflation.
[2:09:21]
Stephan Kinsella
Well, I’m reminded of the Seinfeld episode. You don’t even know what a write off is. Yes, the funny thing is they have this Danny DeVito character acting like the wise one, but even he gets it wrong. So a cursory take would be this this illustrates the importance of the relation between interest rates and finance and the time the time value of money. But a deeper analysis would be that this clip illustrates the relevance of economic literacy and time preference. So time preference is the reason we have interest and also these guys are illustrating time preference being high because they’re ignorant of economic theory which is why they’re willing to pay too much for the couch. Yeah. But tell us about that nut.
[2:10:17]
Stephan Kinsella
Yeah, I blow through my nut every month. I’m told you have to get the nut out and that’s important. But honestly, this is so this is a great example of just sort of how the general public views inflation. And yeah, there’s enough right in there, but the problem is there’s also too many things wrong with it, right? So I feel like people get half the story right, say with the great financial crisis, they watch the big short and they get half of it right, but they miss the part about how the government was promoting subprime mortgages and artificially lowering interest rates, right? So the sun this clip from It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia is showing like how they get sort of like half of it, right? But yeah, go ahead. Seven. So, so, so Dvito’s character makes the mistake of conflating price rises, which is monetary or price inflation, with real inflation, which is increasing the money supply. Although he seems to sense the connection by talking about the Feds tampering with interest rates. but he buys into the common misconception that there needs to be a Federal Reserve or a central bank that controls the interest rates.
[2:11:34]
Stephan Kinsella
So he’s thinking that if interest rates are too high or too low in particular if they’re too low that causes price inflation or inflation. But this presupposes that we should have some reasonable interest rate set by the Fed. But of course the Austrian view would be that the money supply should be fixed. There should be a fixed money supply. There should not be fractional reserve banking. And basically if the Fed were to do its job and to approximate what we would have with the sound money world like a gold money or a bitcoin world is the interest rate should go to infinity. In other words, the Federal Reserve should stop printing any money at all. They should raise the interest rate to infinity. Stop permitting the banks to borrow against the Fed. Now, that doesn’t mean interest rates would be infinite. They would go to a natural market level, which would be higher than we have right now, and that would reduce that would stop the amount of price inflation that’s happening.
[2:12:43]
Tyrone
I appreciate that very much, but all I really heard is Adam and Tyrone. Gosh, that’s a great idea. You’re going to have ultimate success with this new segment on the show. You guys talk about talking about
[2:12:56]
Tyrone
Say again. Brian Dominic. I think it was Dominic, right? I don’t know. I think it was a good idea. If you can do what Stephan was leading you towards there, which is, you know, correcting the flaws in the in the show. Yeah. they brought in supply and demand at the end which is not really anything to do with inflation is the amount of currency and inflation happens when there’s unbacked currency entering the market. So Stephan maybe you can clarify this for me. Is the Austrian view that there should be a fixed supply of money or simply that money should not be severed from production? It’s like if you mine more gold, you’re going to get more gold currency. But that’s fine in the Austrian view, right? Because it’s backed by production.
[2:13:41]
Stephan Kinsella
Austrianism is technically a value-free discipline. It’s economics. It’s not really a normative policy recommendation. The libertarian view is mixed. and the Austrians who are libertarians, most of them are in favor of a gold standard because there is still some price inflation because of the natural mining of gold. And I think the theory there is that yeah, it’s ideal that you don’t have a fractional reserve system at all. So that you can only have price inflation that comes about from the expansion of the money supply when you find new gold. Now my view is that that’s just an imperfection in money, which is fine. If you have a gold money supply, it’s still not a perfect money because you can have mining of new gold and that doesn’t produce new wealth because money is not wealth. So my view is that Bitcoin could be more like an ideal or perfect money because you can never expand the supply of Bitcoin at all once we reach 21 million.
[2:14:48]
Stephan Kinsella
So the libertarian Austrians most of the Rothbardian ones are opposed to fractional reserve banking. the Hayekians and the free bankers like Larry White and George Selgin and these guys, they are in favor of a private fractional reserve banking system called free banking which I think has economically some problems which Rothbard and some other Austrians have pointed out. Stephan, I was just about I was just going to bring up George Selgin. So I’m glad you did. And his talk at the Mises Institute he gave probably 10 years ago maybe. I don’t know. It was pretty convincing to me to make me really think about fractional reserve banking in a different way. But the way he was describing it, it almost sounded like more like if you were to buy a certificate of deposit at a bank, let’s say. Yeah. Like they can loan that money out because it’s not that the transaction is transparent. Like we’re not going to guarantee this money to you tomorrow. We’ll guarantee it to you sometime in the future. And in the meantime, we’re going to loan it out. Yeah. Okay. So, I mean, the long and short is they can’t guarantee it. They can make an IOU. So, unlike some of the Rothbardians, I am not opposed to fractional reserve banking from a libertarian perspective as long as you disclose the terms to the depositor. The problem is conflating the two functions of depositing or safekeeping or warehousing of your money and of credit intermediation. So, if you deposit or give money to a bank, I think you should have to make a choice. Am I loaning this to the bank? Yes. In which case, I lose my title to it and then the bank can loan it out to other borrowers and hopefully make a profit and give some of that back in the form of interest payments to the depositor, which is not really a depositor. It’s more of a lender.
[2:16:50]
Stephan Kinsella
Yes. Yes. The economic dispute in my view is that the free bankers like Selgin they believe that the IOUs that the bank would print and issue could circulate as a money substitute. I don’t think they could because the value of an IOU which is just a promise to be paid in the future is not as good as title to actually money or gold. Because there’s always a risk of failure. The people when I loan money to a fractional reserve bank and the bank loans it out to borrowers. You’re loaning it to them for them to spend on their enterprises, but they might go bad. Like they might have a they might go bankrupt. They might not be able to repay their loan, which means the assets of the bank could fall to a level where they’re insolvent and they can’t repay the IOUs held by their customers, which is a risk that you take. That risk is stopped right now because of federal deposit insurance, but in a free market there wouldn’t be that. And there also could not be private insurance because those are uninsurable risks because Mises distinguished between case probability and class probability. And you simply can’t insure your business venture. It’s impossible.
[2:18:12]
Tyrone
Stephan, that was great. Can you hang on just a second? Yeah. All that information was just such a big dump that Jason’s poor Jason’s brain is full and he has to leave. But before he goes, can you—thank you for being here and you got to look at the camera and tell us what you think of the Human Nature Show.
[2:18:31]
Jason
Thank you. You know, I’m Human Nature’s number one fan. I’m a paid subscriber, which is a badge of honor for me. I really, really hope you keep riding Bob Murphy’s coattails to the top of this internet. That’s the plan, brother. So, you know, a life of degenerate gambling. So, you know me well. Yes. Love you guys. Thank you so much. Nice to meet you guys who I haven’t met yet. Mark and Mark, good to see you again. Love you everybody. Congratulations on the kid.
[2:19:04]
Tyrone
Thanks for coming, brother. Thank you. Thank you. All right, Adam. Well, we’ve been going a couple hours now. I think it’s time we kind of wrap this thing up here. We got any more listener viewer comments to say goodbye. You know we do and once again want to thank everybody for joining us. This has been such a treat for us. I mean 200 episodes it doesn’t sound like a lot but for us this is a big milestone. So we really appreciate it and all of you guys have been a part of our journey. We couldn’t have done it without you. So thank you so much.
[2:19:41]
Adam Haman
I want to echo that except you’re all terrible because way back on Human Nature episode number 18, we had our highest viewed episode ever cuz I interviewed my ex-girlfriend’s son who is a legit rock—he’s a famous musician. I mean, come on. He’s a legit rockstar. Hold on. This all circles together. And so we got one comment, we got several comments on that episode on the YouTube. And here’s one from Eevee Griggs 6706 who said, quote, in all caps, but a very strange type set, this brought me so much hope that NBHD neighborhood, that’s the name of the rock band, will be back. I’m sobbing, crying, throwing up. Nar a punctuation mark, but at the end prayer hands.
[2:20:42]
Tyrone
Thank you, Eevee Griggs 6706. We got a lot of comments from the fans of that band that like really had they were so happy. Have I seen their apparel in Vegas on the Miracle Mile shops? I founded it. What? What did it look like? I think it might have been Brotherhood. I think I got They’re big, but they’re not like Okay. Yeah, I don’t know. I go there a lot. So, echoing what that commenter said, I also feel nauseous when watching your show.
[2:21:14]
Dominic Scarcella
Me, too. Thank you, Dominic. I understand how you feel. I get it. Technically, Dominic, you feel nauseated. Yes, nauseated and nauseous. And remember, as good as It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia for economics, The Sopranos is an excellent documentary about the federal government.
[2:21:34]
Tyrone
All right, dude. That’s your next segment. That’s I’m not going to steal that idea. Even though ideas can’t be copyrighted. Am I right, Stephan?
[2:21:47]
Stephan Kinsella
True story. That’s correct.
[2:21:53]
Tyrone
It is. Amen. It is one of the goals of this episode that all of our guests look into the camera and say something great or awful about our show that we’re totally not going to clip and use anywhere ever. So, let’s start with the double M Mark Maresca. Did we get you already?
[2:22:08]
Mark Maresca
Not yet. I’ll do it. Go for it. Fire. You better believe it. Folks, it’s not often that a white pill takes on human form, but we have that in Adam Haman of Human Nature. He’s a one-man make-us-skeptical-of-statism show. And that’s the through line of his show and his Substack. Please give it a look and subscribe.
[2:22:30]
Tyrone
That was glorious, Mark. I’m not going to make a Moby Dick reference because that would be self-insulting. How about you, Brian? What do you got to say?
[2:22:41]
Brian O’Leary
Well, I’m a little upset that Bob Murphy didn’t make it because Bob called me your old boyfriend, Adam, and he’s your new boyfriend. So, I’m just glad to be a part of it and apparently he was sick today. Yeah. Wish you further success riding that cigarette boat out on the seas and go get them.
[2:23:12]
Tyrone
Thanks, brother. Mark Polles, you’re up.
[2:23:20]
Mark Polles
Welcome, welcome, welcome everyone. You guys are listening to the great Adam Haman and Tyrone the porcupine hobo on Human Nature. Thank you gentlemen for a great 200th episode. Human Nature is the best. You guys can clip this all day. Be careful ladies. Converted it into an NPR episode. No kidding. Or I turn into an ASMR I think I turned into ASMR episode. Straight Barry White. I love it.
[2:23:48]
Dominic Scarcella
Dominic Scarcella. I’ve been a subscriber to all of your work, Adam. Not only your podcasting, but your writing as well. I enjoy it. And as for the Human Nature podcast, I get a kick out of all the episodes, whether it’s just you, whether it’s you co-hosting with Tyrone, the crossovers with Bob Murphy, or when you have guests on and do a bang-up job of interviewing them. So, congratulations on your 200th episode and may you continue to raise that number and that’s no bluff.
[2:24:19]
Tyrone
What a gentleman. Thank you so much, Mr. Stephan Kinsella. Tell us the truth.
[2:24:26]
Stephan Kinsella
Well, I would say that with Adam, with your sonorous voice and a face made for radio and Human Nature and with your co-host Tyrone who’s got the ethnically confusing name. So true. And with your co-host Bob sometimes. I would say that Human Nature is my favorite new podcast of the year with someone I know who is a libertarian. Actually, it’s one of my favorite podcasts. It’s on my regular rotation. So, keep up the good work. I think you’re doing a great job. Very good interviewer. Very good questions you ask of your guests and I look forward to listening to more.
[2:25:02]
Tyrone
Oh, that was awesome. Thank you so much. Brother Porcupine, are we winding it down? Do we got anything else we want to say or ask our folks about? We can end it here, which would be fine. And everybody’s we’ve been on a long Oh, no, we can’t. No, we can’t. No, we can’t. No, we can’t. First of all, we got a subject that we can’t not talk about. What’s been going on with Bitcoin and gold and silver and all things bubble inflated asset related. But even more importantly, I know a certain spiny underground dwelling rodent who’s got like some genius investing advice or something he wants to share. So, okay. Any who here owns like precious metals? I assume we all do. Am I being detained? Do you work for the IRS? Who are you? I am not raising my hand like I did for the anarchist question. So, I will not do it again. I will not.
[2:26:08]
Tyrone
Well, the price of gold and silver has been going apeshit crazy lately and I don’t know if you’ve been noticing that or care. I am forbidden from day trading because of the financial work that I’m in. But if you were a financial trader and had the ability to trade as fast as a computer can, there’s an easy way to track the price of gold and short it or buy it low. And that’s just do the inverse of the DXY. So this is my big financial tip. Whenever the dollar goes strong, gold goes down. Whenever the dollar goes weak, gold goes up. And it happens in a fraction of an instant. So, there’s my tip for you, Adam. Pipping and forex, too. It’s great. Fun stuff.
[2:27:13]
Tyrone
All right. I’ve taken copious notes. Thanks for that, Tyrone. But I’m curious what all our esteemed guests think about what’s we’ve seen with silver and gold, the up and the down, the announcement of a new Fed chair, the massive continued counterfeiting, and how crap fiat money is. Anybody have anything brilliant to say about what’s going on or what we can expect?
[2:27:45]
Stephan Kinsella
Yeah, the new Fed chair is a fake. He is not going to be a hawk. He will cut interest rates as soon as he’s in. I predict, just a prediction, folks. This is not financial advice. I guarantee nothing. The Federal Reserve will hit about a two and a quarter percent target rate by this time next year. That’s my prediction. Who else? Raise your hands.
[2:28:11]
Mark Polles
Mark, go ahead. Mark P. All I can tell you is that I sense precious metals doing something and I’m like, you know, I should start investing. As the price reached north of 30, I started getting uncomfortable cuz when does everybody remember when that guy dumped like 12 billion dollars of silver on the market after it hit like 30 and then it dropped to like seven for all that time and then took all that time to build up again? Like that’s where I was at in my head, right? Because we have these emotional feelings, right? So I stopped buying at 31.80. I even looked back at it and that was like March or April of this year and it hit 118 plus or you’re like what is going on now? Obviously, I’m looking at it right now. It’s I’ve got bull I go to bullion exchanges just for the index. 49.80 on gold, which obviously that’s skyrocketed, but silver’s still 78.48, still two two and a half x where I stopped buying. And to you guys, other than investing in additional brass and lead, which are the other precious metals we should be investing in, actually copper, just so we know. Other than those two other precious metals, what do you guys think about keep buying into this market as it’s heating? Because I was feeling a rug happening. I’m expecting some rugging to happen.
[2:29:32]
Brian O’Leary
Okay, so my father lost his shirt on gold investment in the 80s. And I’ll never forget how disappointed he was in that. And later in life, he told me, you know, if you invest in physical gold, I just don’t—it’s too volatile. Number one, when it goes crazy, and number two, what are you going to do with it? You can’t go to the grocery store and buy anything with it. You still got to convert it into cash. So he at the end of the day, even though he was a libertarian, he was kind of owning precious metals like as a having your house servers because what are you gonna do with it? You gotta convert it anything. I guess I’m just on the opposite end of my father there. I keep buying as much physical metal as I can. I mean I have a limited budget. So it’s not like I’m sitting on hordes of it. But I still think it’s a good investment if you don’t need the money right away. If you can understand the monetary value of it may go down in the short term and you’re okay with that. I think dollar cost average. My personal I just keep buying it. I don’t know anybody else.
[2:31:00]
Tyrone
Thanks for sharing that. That’s brave to keep saying that because it’s like and you’re backing it up. So thank you for I’ve lost my ass in the last few days because I bought some at the peak. Let’s hear from the guy who should know something about money and invest. Go ahead in the funny hat.
[2:31:18]
Stephan Kinsella
Well, you could say just invest in yourself, you know. And that’s experiences with the die with zero guy. Which I kind of agree with to a degree. Well, I think that we have to keep in mind number one, the future really is uncertain because it hasn’t happened yet. And people that think they can predict what’s happening, say we’re in a trend, I think it’s all nonsense. I actually agree with Malkiel and the random walk down Wall Street guy. It’s impossible to predict the future with a program or with a trick because if you could do it, then other people would do it and then you would lose the edge. Now what I think is I think it’s inevitable that the dollar is going to collapse. But we’ve been saying this for 50 years. So how long is it going to be we don’t know. It’s a little bit like you know the reason California and even the US can charge so much taxes is because they know they can get away with it because people are slow to leave. But eventually they leave. They’re leaving in California and New York now. And the US has used its reserve dollar status around the world to control people. And that’s slowly causing people to flee to BRICS currencies or others. So, and the dollar is doomed. All monies, all fiat monies are doomed because if you can print it, you will print it, right? And that’s what’s going to happen.
[2:32:38]
Stephan Kinsella
So I think fiat monies are going to collapse at some point. And so I think we possibly could be in the process of monetization of Bitcoin or something like that. But we’ve never seen this before in the history of the world. So, we don’t really know how it’s going to play out, whether it’s going to be a soft landing or a hard landing or a peaceful transition or anarchy Mad Max world or what. But my guess is that Bitcoin I think is prudent to have at least some small percentage of your portfolio in something like precious metals and Bitcoin if nothing else is a diversification and as a hedge against the inevitable collapse of the dollar. And you know I don’t think anyone keeps the majority of their wealth in cash anymore. They keep it in stocks and real estate and now in precious metals and bitcoin whether it’s in mutual funds or ETFs or whether it’s in physical actual holdings of Bitcoin or gold or silver. So, that’s all I can say is just try to be aware of it and don’t count on it and don’t think that you can predict the future because yeah, that’s how people get burned. And of course, they do the thing that psychics do too. They count their hits and not their misses. So, people say, “Oh, I made a great trade here.” They don’t tell you about the 10 trades they made that lost money. So very few people, if any, are really able to predict the future with their systems.
[2:34:06]
Tyrone
Wasn’t it China that just introduced to try to take over the reserve to introduce their some kind of bill as a reserve currency to take over for American currency? I just heard something on the news that I think the BRICS countries including China and the BRICS countries they’re trying to come up in Russia they’re trying to come up with an alternative to the petrodollar to trade oil in. So I think that’s coming. The US has thrown its weight around too much and that ruins the ability of people to count on the dollar. I mean, if you’re censored in your use of the dollar by being removed from the Swift system, you know, people finally will say, “Well, the dollar is convenient, but the US government controls it too much.” So, they’re going to overplay their hand and it’s going to cause a flight to fragmented currencies around the world, which is just a precursor to a breakdown of the monetary order of the world. And the US doesn’t have control of the whole world or the United Nations. So, I don’t think that we’re going to have like a phoenix or a new currency that will take over. And so, I think it’s going to have to be some alternative. And hopefully, it will be something like Bitcoin or gold. Although I think gold has failed already. And to think it won’t fail a second time is naive. So, it would have to be something new like a decentralized currency like Bitcoin.
[2:35:31]
Tyrone
From a conspiracy theorist perspective. I remember when West Germany absorbed East Germany and they gave, you know, they took three East German marks and gave them one West German mark or something like that. Do you foresee some CBDC takeover where your dollars will just be converted and you’ll get a fractionalization? It like zeros it back out and resets everything. Does anyone sense anything like that with the way things are going?
[2:36:02]
Tyrone
Yeah, like a reverse stock split at some point. They’re going to say like, you know, right? Um because I’m seeing governments and banks buying gold, too. and they’re backing they’re trying to back I’m sensing a backing of a new thing that they’re trying to get us you know with I was just about to say the most recent crossover Human Nature episode 199 that I had with Bob Murphy we talked about a bunch of these central banks and the stable coin Tether buying a whole bunch of gold which obviously had something to do with this recent runup and the theory being posted out there is that what they’re trying to do is create some sort of either gold linked or gold-backed cryptocurrency to try and make people have a soft landing from all this fiat nonsense. And I don’t know if they’ve got the stones or the wherewithal or the ability to make any of that happen, but it’s interesting that a lot of people with a lot of money are looking to gold to try and make this whole thing not look like a fraud anymore at least. And that’s kind of encouraging.
[2:36:59]
Stephan Kinsella
I mean in my view obviously the only libertarian solution would be a default and I think that’s what the government should do. Contrary to everyone defending Milei this alleged libertarian for having to get the backing of the US to keep the Argentinian peso from collapsing. What’s wrong with it collapsing? Right? What’s wrong with just defaulting on your debt to the IMF and other things? Because that’s just putting it on the backs of the taxpayers. So I think default—and Rothbard talks about this in his writing—the only libertarian solution is for the government to default. Instead of revaluing the currency, just default on all the obligations and just cancel out the federal debt. Have sort of like a jubilee. That would cause turmoil in a worldwide recession, but that’s coming anyway. This bubble that we’ve been in for 70 years or whatever it is is bound to pop at some point. And it’s better to pop it by making the holders of government slavery bonds suffer rather than everyone else, the taxpayers and people holding real assets.
[2:38:12]
Tyrone
Completely agree. Mark and Mark, as I said on your show, Misesians are terrible at giving predictions and I gave you guys predictions on when I was a guest on your show. 2032 it’s all over. So guys, buckle up. We’re only a few years away.
[2:38:31]
Adam Haman
Adam, hold on a second before we move. I haven’t heard Dom give any prognostications or Brian.
[2:38:38]
Tyrone
Oh, yeah. Dom, I bet has a different perspective on things because Dom you are you with us? Okay.
[2:38:50]
Dominic Scarcella
Yes. There’s a lot of things in economics that can you guys hear you you’re glitching in and out Brian. I can hear you right this second but it’s spotty unfortunately guys. Sorry Tom. Go ahead. Things like fiat money survives because at the end there’s an end-user for it like the government will accept it back for taxes. That was the basis for old gold-backed money and precious metals as well. The common person didn’t do a lot practically with gold and silver but they knew that there was an end user who would actually want to consume it. There was the ruling class that would want it for jewelry and things because precious metals draw attention you know and that’s what the ruling class wants. They want to stand out. They want to draw people’s attention, flaunt their wealth, that they could have something that was not really useful, but yet they had it. So, I don’t think that there should be a fixed amount of money because I think that’s terribly unnatural.
[2:39:56]
Dominic Scarcella
So I don’t know whether this puts me with other Austrians or anything like that but I think anything that people want to use as a proxy for goods and services could be money. Absolutely. I think gold and silver for a long time was successful because it was a commodity money that if there was too much gold and too much silver, people would simply stop coining it and instead make saleable items out of it and that would very naturally reduce the amount of gold and silver in currency and therefore buffer the value of the currency. Then if the value of it goes way up then people would stop making as many commodity many products out of it and go back to coining it. So there was a natural ebb and flow and I think the reason why I’m okay with that is because and this is where maybe I’m going to go off the rails with even Austrians. I think perfect markets are a scam. I don’t know why you would want perfect markets. I don’t know why you would want perfect equilibrium. I don’t know why you would want perfect money. Austrians don’t believe in that either. Good. Because the word perfect to me means static.
[2:41:08]
Dominic Scarcella
Like you want a perfect market. It has existed in history, right? And it’s absolute poverty to consume everything that you produce is a perfect market. That’s subsistence level. Completely agree to the market. Let me pause you for a second, Dom. I’m sorry. I know Mark Maresca has to take off. So, thank you for Thank you for coming, brother. And say goodbye to the nice folks.
[2:41:40]
Mark Maresca
Thank you so much for joining us. Congratulations again, Adam. You do a great show. And you just keep it up and a lot to all the guys here, Stephan, Mark. So, great seeing you again.
[2:41:47]
Tyrone
Thank you, brother. You’re awesome, man. Keep up your great work. That’s right. Take care. Great seeing you, Mark. White Pill Box, everybody. By the way, he’s got a 23-part series on the psychology of authority. It is often authority. It is absolutely amazing. He basically predicts the ICE shooting in the second episode or the third episode like 12 minutes in. Like, oh, we got to talk. That’s why I booked him on the last show like two weeks ago. Oh, yeah. 100%. There you go. It’s Steph and a half. I like imperfections. I did the which was I was going to sub with like the best parts of the market are the imperfect parts. Yeah. And I don’t know why you would ever ever want to have perfect anything because perfect means static.
[2:42:31]
Stephan Kinsella
Yeah. Austrian economics is boring and that’s not growth. Has nothing to do with static. Everything happens like the great Jeff Deist says everything happens on the margins and obviously you never reach equilibrium. It’s you know the market process is a dynamic process. It has to be because it’s based in reality and that’s what human beings are on this earth is dynamically trying to advance and achieve. And yes, of course, there’s no such thing as an equilibrium.
[2:42:55]
Tyrone
Stephan Kinsella, God bless you, good man, for coming on our little show. I really appreciate you. Thank you for dressing up. I know you have to say goodbye, so say goodbye to the nice folks.
[2:43:09]
Stephan Kinsella
Goodbye everybody. Thank you. Thanks for being the ones I haven’t met before. Thanks so much. Congratulations again and we’ll be in touch and I’ll see you later. Bye-bye, man.
[2:43:20]
Tyrone
Take care, man. You sure care. All right. Well, Adam, I think it’s time for us to wrap this up. We’ve gone through all our talk. Do we have any more viewer comments? We haven’t Mike Brian is Are you back with us, Brian? Have you fixed your issue?
[2:43:39]
Brian O’Leary
I don’t know. Can you hear me? Yes. Yes. Can you hear me? Yes. Yes. Can you hear us? I just wanted to say as far as the yeah as far as the currency discussion and I think it dovetails into most everything in life upon this mortal coil short I’m a short-term pessimist long-term optimist I don’t believe that that optimism is going to manifest in my lifetime certainly not by 2032 Tyrone but I’m looking forward to things happening for my kids, for their grandchildren. I think things are, you know, if discussions like this and getting out the word about how screwed up things really are, they really are messed up in this world, and this culture. If we can change that slowly but surely, I think in a number of generations, we can, you know, to Dom’s point, not it’s not gonna be perfect, but it’ll be a lot better. So, that’s all I got to say.
[2:44:44]
Tyrone
That’s great. Amen. I think we’re about ready to wrap up. Yeah, Tyrone. All right. It’s up to you, man, if you want to do the one last thing or just call it quits. I got You had mentioned in your email that we were supposed to prepare something about Oscar and so I was prepared to talk about Oh [ __ ] Don’t actually prevent it. Okay. God, that’s my leave. I have zero my Oscars. That was my weak spot. I’m like, please let’s not get to the Oscars. I thought was a very underrated character on Sesame Street. I think it’s really unfortunate.
[2:45:24]
Tyrone
All right, we’re not going to do that, guys. I haven’t seen any of the movies. Oh, man. No, we’re not we’re not doing the Oscars, but I agree with Dominic that Oscar the Grouch was a greatly underrated Oscar the Grouch was the best, but I’ve got one more last thing, Adam, that Patriots win 20 to 17.
[2:45:48]
Tyrone
All right. Anybody else have a Super Bowl thing they want to No, no, no. It’s not the Super Bowl. It’s the other thing. Everything’s a thing. It’s tomorrow, isn’t it? I don’t know. We should buy Greenland. Hit us with it, Tyrone. I got time. Let’s do it. Come on, man. Come on. You can Well, I think Adam, this has been amazing. Thank you everybody for joining. It was so nice to meet the people that I have only seen behind the computer. and to meet some of my heroes and to have you all celebrate with us our 200th episode.
[2:46:25]
Dominic Scarcella
It’s really just behind the computer. God damn it, Dominic. You’re always bringing it back home.
[2:46:31]
Tyrone
You’re right. Who invited the wet blanket to this party? I’m a realist. I’m sorry.
[2:46:42]
Tyrone
I thank each and every one of you for coming on our little show to help celebrate it. It means the world to me. I’m sorry, ladies and gentlemen, that we suck. You know what at technological pro I don’t know how it started working honestly. We started trying to I clicked the button. I don’t believe you. Porcupines don’t have digits that operate machinery. Tyrone. Minutes the world premiere of Devil is Republican is about to hit YouTube. So that’s right. The Devil is Republican. Look out for that. Share it. Try and get people mad with it. I encourage this. Brian, you make the devil is rep libertarian one, too. He said we have a second a third thing coming up in the trilogy. I don’t know what it is. I don’t know what it is. It could it could be anything. The devil is a porcupine.
[2:47:31]
Tyrone
Thank you, Mark. Thank you, Dominic. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. And we will catch you next time on Human Nature. Be safe.
[2:47:39 – End]
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