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KOL274 | Nobody Owns Bitcoin (PFS 2019)

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Kinsella on Liberty Podcast, Episode 274.

[Update: For an article based on the transcript, see “Nobody Owns Bitcoin,” StephanKinsella.com (Sept. 20, 2019). See also Pavel Slutskiy, “Yes, You Should Own Bitcoin,” J. Libertarian Stud. 28, no. 1 (2024): 1–19.

Update: See KOL395 | Selling Does Not Imply Ownership, and Vice-Versa: A Dissection (PFS 2022).]

This is my presentation to the 2019 Annual Meeting of the Property and Freedom Society on Sunday, Sept. 15, 2019. Powerpoint slides embedded below. Youtube embedded below.

Also podcast at PFP215.

Some related Q&A is in this session which was held later on the same day: Hülsmann, Kinsella, Dürr, Hoppe, Q&A (PFS 2019) [PFP218].

Related links/relevant material:

Update: See also this Twitter thread:

 

Stephan Kinsella
@NSKinsella
My point is that bitcoin itself is not ownable. If you somehow “hack” then either the hacking violates rights (contract, trespass), or it doesn’t. If it does, that itself is the rights violation. Still doesn’t imply bitcoins are ownable things.
Stephan Kinsella
@NSKinsella
2/ as for nodes etc.–the point is, to own a bitcoin, implies the right to use force against some private computer owners to make them change their own computers’ data. Which is obviously wrong; thus, bitcoin can’t be owned, even in principle. Data doesn’t exist independently,
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Stephan Kinsella
@NSKinsella
3/ as some separately existing, free-floating, ownable “thing.” Data is always just the way a substrate is arranged or impatterned. And that substrate is always a material, scarce resource that itself has to have an owner. Whether it’s paper, or rock, or magnetic tape, or
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Stephan Kinsella
@NSKinsella
4/ some semiconductor memory chip or optical disk. Those things are already owned, so the “way they are arranged” can’t “also” be owned. If I own a red car that weighs 2000 lbs I don’t own red or redness or its weight. They are just features or characteristics–“properties”–OF
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Stephan Kinsella
@NSKinsella
5/ the thing that I own. this is the fundamental mistake made by people who say you own a bitcoin. They are basically conflating possession with ownership. They mean you possess or control a bitcoin (by your keys), but they call this “ownership” because they are sloppy and stupid
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Stephan Kinsella
@NSKinsella
6/ So the details of how hacking happens are relevant but ultimately boring. If it is done by trespass or fraud or contract breach, then it can be legally prohibited and punished. If not, not.
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Stephan Kinsella
@NSKinsella
7/ I am curious if you disagree with any of the preceding, given your more detailed knowledge of the inner workings of the bitcoin encryption system and the ways people do hacking.

 

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{ 12 comments… add one }
  • Joachim B September 29, 2019, 1:52 pm

    Stephan, when can we expect videos from PFS 2019?

  • Dennis Nezic October 15, 2019, 10:59 pm

    It’s an interesting question: how would an ancap society deal with “stolen” bitcoins — for example, those that are brute-forced guessed, perhaps by weak brainwallets (passwords). It /feels/ very similar to accidentally dropping your wallet on a sidewalk, except as was explained in this podcast and elsewhere one doesn’t technically own “them”. Nevertheless, it still seems very unfair that someone should be able to simply take another person’s hard earned money like this. Assuming we knew who “unjustly” took them, would anyone object to the original “owner” initiating reasonable aggression against this individual to try to get them back or be otherwise compensated for the loss?

  • Bilal Bach December 10, 2019, 1:54 pm

    Love your thoughts. I just now found your blog and diving into it, as a deontic libertarian. I wonder if you heard of Bitcoin Satoshi Vision (BSV), it differs greatly from the one anarchists are controlling which has no value being unscalable.

    • Stephan Kinsella December 15, 2019, 11:34 am

      … Is your question really whether I have heard of BSV? Seriously?

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