KOL462 | CouchStreams After Hours on Break the Cycle with Joshua Smith (2021): Hoppe’s Michael Malice Helicopter Photo, Scooter Rides with Sammeroff, Mises Caucus Hopes, the Loser Brigade

much success turning people into

libertarians by by trolling them If we

can bring the message of liberty through

what’s popular why wouldn’t we be doing

that we are simply free I want the whole

thing abolished If I have to take all

the heat to open the floodgates I’m

going to [ __ ] do it Rent and property

are not that Fight the death box Don’t

forget to break the cycle

Hello hello hello and welcome to Couch

Streams after hours where we give you

all the cool content that you have to

pay for Uh then we leave all the the

virgin nonsubscribers out of the

exclusives Uh I’m here with Stephan

Cassell who we just had an awesome live

stream Learned a lot about IP tonight

Stephan people want to know about this

this uh the scooter ride Can you hear me

can you hear me

People want to know about this scooter

ride with Samar man What’s What’s this

all about what what do people keep

talking about i mean the scooter ride

was not the highlight of the whole thing

but u so Samur I had done Samur’s show a

couple a couple times last year Scottish

Liberty podcast and u he was going to be

in Houston for a few weeks vagabonding

around the world and so earlier this

year I think it was March he said hey

Canella I’m in Houston so I I picked him

up we went to have coffee and I said hey

I’m going to go to the Mises Institute

next this coming weekend for a Mises

thing do you want to come he goes hell

yeah So he went with us and we had a

blast On the way back home I said “Um

you know I’m going to go to Tellide

skiing next week You don’t happen to ski

do you?” He goes “Yeah my dad told me to

ski.” So he went to Tellide with me We

had a blast We ended up going I don’t

know several cities together Um or

meeting each other coincidentally like

twice like in Portland and in some other

city And in some of those cities they

have these scooters everywhere which I

you know that’s a thing now and I had

never tried them but I started getting

the the ebikes and the the scooters And

so we just started riding scooters

around I think in Austin we did it and

uh in in um in uh some other cities too

So we just had a blast and we I took

some videos of it So that was where the

scooter story came from But um I will

tell you that when I when I got home in

March um I love the scooter I bought one

of the bird the bird air scooters and

and I had already hurt my shoulder from

four I went skiing twice and I fell

twice in February when I went with the

Juan Carpio and then I fell two more

times with Samuroff in Telluride and my

shoulder was hurting pretty bad and when

I got got home I had my scooter and I

flipped over in my driveway and landed

on I really hurt my shoulder So I’ve

hurt my shoulder five freaking times

this year I was with a physical

therapist this morning and she was

listening She goes “Do you have balance

problems?” Like she was wondering if I

have a problem I said “No I just had

five unlucky breaks this year.” So my my

scooter adventures did lead me to almost

break my shoulder somehow but that’s the

that’s the scooter Okay I see I see So

lots of lots of pain there I get that I

I do I do have balance problems I have a

vertigo issue So uh you think I’d you

think I’d hurt myself a lot more but

once you’ve lived with vertigo for as

long as I have you get used to it So you

don’t you know to overcompensate you

know what I mean

it’s a little rocket I’m okay I’m going

to make it you know Uh I I don’t really

get I don’t really get super nauseous

from it anymore thankfully But uh and it

comes in it comes in waves I’ll have it

for a couple weeks and then I won’t have

it for a year and then it comes back It

sucks I think it’s uh whatever they call

that inner ear disease or something I I

haven’t really been checked for too much

Or it could be a brain tumor Who knows

who knows you know but what we did with

it was so what we what we did that was

more fun was in Colorado we decided to

because I knew what was going to happen

And I knew we were going to get on the

ski lifts and we were going to be

jabbering jabbering jabbering about

[ __ ] and about libertarian stuff So

I decided to record it and we and so I

recorded it for about 3 days all of our

lifts and we called it lift talks and so

we published those as a couple of

podcasts and we thought they were

hilarious and some people thought they

were funny They were just us [ __ ]

around a lot but um joking around and

being crude but that was fun Yeah You

you ski a lot You’re uh No I don’t

That’s the first time I’ve skied in like

seven years That’s why that’s why I um

that’s why I hurt myself I while I had

the chance I was going like a bat out of

hill And I They say that after the third

day skiing like your confidence gets

better but your skill doesn’t So that’s

when you start hurting yourself You know

it’s a lot easier to roll out of a

snowboard than it is on skis right

that’s what I’ve heard I’ve heard

snowboarding Yeah I’m I’m a snowboarder

man I’ve never been on a pair of skis

I’ve been on water skis but I never been

on snow skis I I snowboard So yeah I’m

I’m from the south So when I went when I

lived in Philly for a while I would or

when I had Yankee friends you have to

say I would always say snow ski I would

say snow ski to distinguish right

because we but when you say ski down

south we mean water ski So when you say

snow ski they kind of say why do you say

snow every time i’m like because there’s

two types of skiing Yeah Some people

just some people aren’t aware of that

I’m from California but I I grew up

about three hours away from Tahoe man So

I even spent a season up there working

at that uh Sierra and it it was a good

time man I I enjoy it And it’s you know

Tahoe is a nice snow It’s not like a

freezing ass cold snow like here in the

Midwest you know It’s completely

different It’s uh it’ll it’ll snow It’ll

dump like big powder all night long

You’ll wake up the next day it’ll be

like 60° 65 degrees 70 degrees and

you’re snowboarding in a t-shirt You’re

like “This is great.” You know uh let’s

talk let’s talk about uh you infuriating

the left and uh some of these these uh

what we like to call the loser brigade

libertarians by taking a picture with

Hans Herman Hoa You had a nice little

helicopter Did did Hans know what was

going on there did he understand the the

uh the implications i think he was Well

what happened was this was uh 2018 I

think the Mises Institute had their 35th

anniversary celebration in New York City

So I went to that uh my wife finally

came with me met my friends They finally

believed I had a wife after all those

years cuz she never goes to these things

She’s a normy And so anyway so so we

went to New York And so Michael Malice

was at the uh one of the receptions and

he walked up to Hans and he gave him

this toy helicopter he had bought for

like a G.I Joe Holy [ __ ] Malice did it

malice gave it to him and Hans thought

it was funny So later that night Hans

and I were at a at at the Bakarat Hotel

I remember that’s where we were staying

And we had a crowd of people were

staying and Hans and I Hans was telling

me about the Malice helicopter thing and

he was laughing about it I said “Let me

see it.” So he pulled it out and so I

said “Let’s take a selfie.” So we took a

picture and I posted it and then all the

all the loser brigade goes apehit you

know And the this one thing about my

libertarian career is I’ve always been

independent Like I said I’m my own

benefactor and I mean that So like I

never worked for a think tank Like I got

offered a job with KO in

1999 and I said “No freaking way I’m

gonna be a lawyer I can make money as a

lawyer I’m not gonna work I’m not going

to be beholden to someone else for my

opinions.” Um

well this is 98 I kind of admired them

then Sure You know they were I thought

they were libertarian Um but I didn’t

want to do that But um anyway so my

point is at this point it’d be hard to

cancel me because I don’t need any of

these people Um and my my view about all

these all these people that are virtue

signalers and they start calling you a

fascist I just think you should you

should just look at them and say you’re

an [ __ ] True Just call them an

[ __ ] and walk away They don’t deserve

anything more than that Um don’t give

them your respect You don’t have to

defend yourself Like you know they say

“You need to sign a letter denouncing

bigotry.” I’m like “You’re an [ __ ]

[ __ ] off.”

Yeah I know It’s always funny to me Uh

when they when they go at me for that

first of all I’m I’m part Jewish right

my dad’s side of the family’s part

Israeli Uh so calling me a Nazi is

always funny Calling calling me and Dave

Smith both a Nazi is always funny to me

because Dave’s also a huge Jew He’s

actually like religiously Jewish I’m not

Um I’m just you know hereditary Uh but

then even funnier is I grew up right

outside of Oakland California right uh

if I was ever in my life a Nazi or a

bigot I would be dead I would be dead

now There is no doubt about it The

neighborhoods I grew up in I would be

dead by now And that’s there is there is

no way you can tell me I wouldn’t Uh I I

know guys who did were Nazis or white

supremists that are dead now you know uh

I mean most most racists and Nazis and

commies you know that they’re racist and

Nazis and commies because they say it I

mean you know you can tell because

that’s what they espouse Yeah And that’s

that’s the funny thing is like that you

know these people are usually proud of

that [ __ ] Yeah You know it’s not hard to

find Um so I I just think it’s

ridiculous Um and I look at it I really

do look at it like this If someone acts

like that

um

uh if if if I’m going to be excluded

from polite society which means their

crowds fine It’s their law I I view it

as their law It’s not mine I think we

need to throw up the quotes when we say

polite society with those people Yeah

Yeah You know another another case of

the tolerant left striking again right

uh yeah So so you know these these uh

these exclusive chats are a little short

but I want to I want to get into the

Mises Caucus a little bit Are you are

you down to talk about that a little

absolutely All right So So you’ve joined

the Mises Caucus correct

uh I think I’m a member I’m on their

Facebook page I don’t know if there’s an

official sign up or something I donate

money Um I’m a supporter I hung out at

the tent Um I think I joined the party

I’d never been a member of the party

because I I’ve not wasn’t I wasn’t a

believer in activist political electoral

politics really But when Woods and all

those guys joined it about three years

ago whenever that was I said “Ah fine

I’ll join.” I think that was the Mises

Caucus sort of rallying people to do it

And I always just assumed that the Mises

caucus was

um like a gathering place for my kind of

libertarian which is the ones who have

an affinity for the ideas of the Mises

Institute type people like Rothbartian

hardcore Austrian economics you know

radical mostly anarchist that kind of

stuff So I assume that’s what it was for

and about like just an attempt to like

listen say we need to kind of steer the

party back towards espousing real

principal libertarianism which seems to

me to make sense So if that’s to the

extent that’s what it is I’m a big

supporter of it Yeah it’s absolutely

what it was It was uh you know we So I’m

sure you’re fairly familiar with the KO

Misa split Um Rothbard Rothbard was

obviously one of the one of the original

founders of the Libertarian Party KO and

the Koch brothers kind of took it over

and put it in their image I think the

last really truly radical uh candidate

the Libertarian party had for president

was Bad Naric in like 2004 and even and

even then it was it was because a bunch

of radicals showed up to the convention

wouldn’t have been a radical had you

know and prior to that it was you know

you know there was a or after that they

kind of really shifted when they went to

the Bob Bar years and uh and uh kind of

switched you know kind of washed over

Mary Ruart and stuff like that and it

just became this essentially like a

beltway uh you know

ko political arm I mean that’s really

what it became and all the at that point

especially after like 2001 after the

after 911 And it was just like all the

Misus libertarians all those people just

left the party completely And so uh

Michael Heis really just came out of the

woodwork and I was I would had announced

that I was running for chair because I

wanted to see anybody go up against Nick

Sarwark is what it was for me Um and I

called a bunch of the big name

Libertarians and I was like “Come on you

got to run against this guy He’s an

[ __ ] He’s talking [ __ ] about Tom

Woods He’s a nice guy you know.” And uh

and and no one wanted to do it Everyone

told me I you know you’re insane He’s

the most popular chair the party’s had

He’s he’s running for his third term

He’s a trial lawyer He was a [ __ ] he was

a [ __ ] public pretender but he was a

trial lawyer and and uh and a used car

salesman He owns a car a big car

dealership and all this [ __ ] And nobody

would do it So I was like “Oh you know

what i’ll do it man.” You know I had I

had this uh this this publication called

Think Liberty I I have since gone to

like Toast Masters and done some debate

preps and and uh a couple of uh speech

classes and um but back then I I I’m

just this like West Coast maintenance

man who still says dude and bro and

hella and like skateboards on the

weekends and you know I’m in my 30s but

um and so you know it was a rough road

um but I I took the Mises Caucus on my

back right so I went to Michael Heis and

I was like you know I’m a Mises

Libertarian that’s what I am and I’m

running to be chair against Nicholas

Sarwark you have this group here with

like 50 There was only like 50 people in

the in the Facebook group We didn’t have

any organization yet any of that stuff

Now they own 26 state boards as of

yesterday Right Right Yeah I mean

they’ve taken this party over They got

that Nick Sar got noted for state

treasurer in New Hampshire for crying

out loud Literally lost to no

one So yeah I think it’s great Uh I I

actually was in Nevada um the day that

they won there and uh met some of the

people there and uh Oh you were there

yeah I I was there actually Sam because

Samarov was there and uh and he he went

to speak at it and I didn’t I thought it

was just going to be a boring convention

thing So I was like at my hotel room I

met up with them at the bar later for

their celebration thing But uh I would

have actually gone if I had known that

they needed outsiders to come and give

support for what they had done But

apparently they didn’t need it And

actually the next day the guy that’s now

Brian Elliot who’s one of the guys that

won the I think he’s the secretary or

the treasurer Yeah Secretary I think

Yeah He took he took Anthony and I to

the Hoover Dam the next day So that’s

pretty cool Yeah Yeah I uh so I was I

talked about this last night on the show

Um was it last night yeah It was Stephen

Naya I was actually on the very first

call with the three Mises Caucus members

that they had in Nevada in 2018 Three

right and they were asking me you know

what should I do and I had already

traveled to 40 or 25 states at this

point I had been trying to build a

caucus all over the place with Heis and

Douglas and all these guys And I was

like look you just got to recruit people

and show up to their convention and take

it away from these people Oh look at

that That’s nice Uh and uh he was like

he’s like “Oh well I just don’t know how

to do it.” And this is you got to

understand this is the this is the state

affiliate that was attacking Ron Paul

They spent a week attacking Ron Paul

from their Facebook page And it’s like

Ron Paul did better in in in Nevada than

almost anywhere except for like Iowa

where I live now And uh and and so

you’re going to go you’re going to try

to be a successful libertarian state

affiliate by attacking the most

libertarian guy that’s ever won You know

what I mean and and uh and so it was

just beautiful to see them take that

whole entire state away from those

losers man Yeah And um I mean from what

I know I mean I’m hopeful I think Mardle

is I hope she I hope she wins and I hope

Dave Smith gets the nomination and uh uh

you know I’ve always I I just simply

believe I think our chance of winning

are zero Um but I think that we we need

to get the message out and to do that we

need to get the libertarian message out

So I was disgusted when they had people

like Weld and Bob Bar and those other

guys Um I mean Gary Johnson was barely a

libertarian I actually voted for him but

now he was he got way too stoned in 2016

Way too stoned Yeah I don’t care about

that too much but I He just is not He’s

I’d say he’s barely libertarian but um

you need to be at least a libertarian I

think to run to be able to take it Well

I talk about this a lot too You know uh

Tom Woods has had me on like three times

on his show now which I still to this

day I’m like how did I get on Tom Woods

show three times right Uh but the first

time he had me on it was something that

stuck with me He’s like “Look if we’re

going to have a party that has the name

libertarian in it it needs to have be an

explicit libertarian like running the

party you know.” Correct Because most

normies in this country when they think

of the word libertarian they don’t think

of the great Misus Institute They don’t

think about you know the even KO or or

Fee or any of this stuff They think

about the Libertarian Party you know And

if we’re if we’re a joke and we’re not

spouting our principles then we’re we’re

doing a great disservice to not just not

just you know the people of this country

but our own ideology our own principles

our own goals uh for more free society

And I think you know I I think Angela

will be great Um I worked very close you

know I’m from I’m a California

libertarian I’m born and raised

California and I uh worked on the board

with Angela She is as principled and

strong of a leader as as they come I

think it’s going to be really good I

hope she does win Uh I am I had

announced that I’m running for my

atlarge seat again but now it may change

I may run for the region rep spot here

region six or I may run for uh vice

chair I don’t know But either way

there’s going to be some unhappy people

if I do one of those two things

Yeah And I’m actually friends with Karen

Anne Harlo I actually had dinner with

her in Colorado uh when I went to my one

of my Tellide trips And uh she’s great

And I I I I followed all that stuff with

you and her and the attempt to the the

New Hampshire coup [ __ ] and then the

attempts to oust her which was

ridiculous Um so you know I don’t want

to be I don’t call it partisan or

whatever but I just the reason the

reason I joined was because I figure

I’ve been I’ve been called people all

have assumed I’m a libertarian a big L

libertarian for 30 years and I never was

So I figure if they’re going to assume

that I might as well join and then try

to make sure that they’re that they’re

actually libertarian Shift the Overton

window in the party is what I like to

say And it’s shifting man every day It’s

getting closer and closer and closer to

being what what I think it should be I

think something that Murray could be

proud of And that’s what I think when

I’m like I want a Libertarian party

that’s going to make Murray Rothbart

proud again You know what I mean like

that’s where I want to take it You know

because he called it the political wing

of the of the liberty movement and it

should be the political wing of the

liberty movement We shouldn’t have to

tell people well you know if you really

want to do anything libertarian you

should join the the Republicans We we

need to have a party that that offers uh

people who are fed up with the [ __ ]

a third option or you know a lesser of

lesser evils I guess if we want to call

it that Um I didn’t believe in electoral

politics for a long time either you know

especially war is war is what created me

I mean I went to war and uh when I got

back I was like there’s no [ __ ] way I

can be a member of this Republican party

anymore who is staunchly uh pro uh

foreign aid especially to Israel poor uh

pro uh war They’re all they’re all

becoming neocons It turned into this

this you know like Mitt Romney John

McCain like version of the Republican

party And I was like this this isn’t me

man And then uh I I you know I worked on

R Paul’s campaign in 2008 and uh after

what they did to him I was like I don’t

know how any liberty advocate can work

with the GOP anymore I just don’t get it

Uh we’ll tell you mentioned Kato I’ll

tell you a kind of funny story about

them Um because I’ve been closely

affiliated with Mises for for for

decades now And so uh you know there’s I

know the KO Mises uh split So about

three or four years ago I got some guy

email me from KO and he said “Hey we’re

going to do this panel debating IP Two

two antiP guys versus two pro IIP guys.”

And they invited me to be on it And I

thought to myself that’s weird you know

i’m like really but I said but I said

okay fine And the guy says but we don’t

have a budget uh for like we can’t pay

you We can’t even pay you for you to get

here I said that’s all right I’ll buy my

own ticket So I was I was going to I was

going to kind of call their bluff So I

bought my ticket and everything and uh

and then sure enough the guy emailed me

weeks later and he says “Listen uh we’ve

had to change the thing and uh you’re no

longer on it.” So basically I think what

happened was someone you know the left

hand wasn’t talking to the right hand

Someone that KO found out and they said

“What the hell are you doing this guy

can’t be here.” Of course Um because

I’ve I’ve called them taco and stuff

before in the past you know Yeah They’re

chicken shits man They are They really

are But anyway so so the guy that

invited me he took my place He was a

nice guy He felt bad about it But anyway

so I was disinvited but because I had

bought my ticket he offered to reimburse

me Okay So they wouldn’t pay for me to

go but since I bought a ticket they gave

me money to pay me back for the ticket

So basically KO paid me not to go there

That and that makes a lot of sense So I

was canceled from KO before cancel

culture happened Yeah it’s they paid me

not to come It’s pretty silly when uh

when people like Matt Welch will sit

down with uh with people from the Mises

Institute before the people from KO will

I wonder why It’s almost like they don’t

want their ideas challenged you know

Yeah Yeah It’s it’s unfortunate There

are there are a couple good people at KO

There are I mean I’m not saying

everybody at KO sucks but most of the

people at KO suck

Yeah I don’t I don’t follow them that

much anymore Um I did meet Nick

Nicollespie uh he’s with Reason I met

him at uh at the Miami Bitcoin thing in

a couple months ago and we had a nice

talk He was he was great Um

he invited he invited me to come you

know call contact him for his crew um if

I go to New York So um he seemed to know

who I was and not be hustled to it But

maybe that’s the IP stuff Yeah the guys

the guys at Reason it’s funny because

the guys at Reason can be reasonable

sometimes Uh but Matt Welch is is just

he goes back and forth so bad And

there’s been times with Gillespie too I

don’t know if you ever Gillespie had a

had a debate with uh with Walter Block

Have you ever seen that i think I did

Yeah Um it’s he really they really don’t

like anarcho capitalists very much So

well when I when I saw Nick I said I

said “Hey man I just actually criticized

you on Facebook about a week because he

had had he was on I think Bill Maher or

somewhere and he said something he had

said something like um

um um he’s talking about big government

agencies and he was criticizing them.”

He said “Not that we’re against all big

government agencies.” Yeah Like he was

talking about the C he was talking about

the Center for Disease Control And now I

gave him a little bit of a break because

it it was on the fly right he was a

maybe he didn’t have time to nuance it

or whatever Like maybe he meant to say

we’re not anarchists Maybe all he meant

to say was we’re not anarchist Um but he

said it in the hamfist way Anyway I

criticized him on Facebook and I told

him that He says “Ah don’t worry about

it.” So because he was cool about it I I

kind of gave him a break Yeah Nick’s all

right Matt Matt can be a little more

sneaky you know and I uh in fact right

after the 2018 um convention Matt Welch

put out a really long form article I’d

almost call it an essay and uh and it it

was called the you know Mises Caucus

rebuffed from the Libertarian Party and

uh we posted in the group you know once

every couple of weeks to remind

ourselves of why we’re here because I

mean they likened us to the uh

Charlottesville marchers and said that

you know we’re the wing of the party

that’s upset that they condemned the the

Charlottesville uh uh protests and this

and that And it was like no no we’re not

We’re literally not that’s not who we

are at all I mean we’re you know we’re

anarcho capitalists and not Nazis and

fascists So it’s kind of shitty for you

to say that Uh and of course they always

quote Nick Sarwark in a in a in a good

light and people like me in a bad light

even if it’s like a normal interview

that had like they’re quoting us about

this New Hampshire thing and they made

it sound like I was essentially uh like

you know the blood and soil candidate

again And I’m like I gave you like a

good quote like we you know it’s good We

won That’s it you know like that’s it

was a good thing that we didn’t let uh

you know all the digital assets and

stuff of the party get stolen And that’s

another thing Uh there was a guy from

New Hampshire who kept coming on going

“Aren’t you guys against IP?” And I’m

like “Uh I think the keys to all the

social media accounts and the websites

and the bank accounts that’s not really

an IP issue.” Yeah Yeah Yeah No that’s

ridiculous It was the most ridiculous

argument I ever heard I’m like he is

this guy really trying to say that this

is an IP issue i mean that’s not even

it’s not even on the same page

Yeah I saw some of that It was

ridiculous Yeah man But anyways hey I

really appreciate you coming on Stephan

Like I said I’m a huge fan Um you know

and and and thank you for becoming a

member of my patre my Patreon tonight

man Ah you’re welcome Glad to do it

Looking for good people to support Yeah

I’ll tell I’ll tell the fiance She’s

gonna she’s going to be stoked too Uh

she’s not as much of a normie as as some

people’s wives M mine is uh mine helped

found something called Informed Choice

Iowa She’s real big on medical freedom

Uh so she’s she’s kind of in the sphere

but she tells me all the time “Why don’t

you just leave that party crap it’s it’s

too much you know.” Yeah Yeah But uh I

appreciate you man If you want to say

one more time where uh where people can

find you at the websites they can check

you out at So uh uh stefancella.com and

nsconell on Twitter and Facebook Awesome

Well thanks again for coming on man I

really appreciate you and uh I look

forward to seeing what you do in the

future Enjoyed it