≡ Menu

Left-libertarians and aggression: a facebook conversation

From this post:

Derek: “don’t know, when you define aggression a priori”

I am not sure what this means. I am defining what libertarians are in terms of their view on aggression: they are against it. Aggression itself requires further explanation, definition, and justification. In my various articles I have attempted this.  E.g http://mises.org/daily/3660#ref18 .

Aggression is fairly obvious in terms of human bodies. But in terms of other scarce resources, you have to identify the owner first–aggression here is dependent on property rights. Thus what makes libertarianism unique is its property right assignment rule: basically the Lockean rule of appropriation of unowned property.

” you do so in a manner that objectively deems certain actions as non-aggressive and therefore non-problematic when they actually are in some reasonable sense.”

In other words, you are willing in some cases to condone the use of violence against someone who has not committed aggression against the body of, or trespassed against the owned property of, another person. We libertarians call that “criminal” or aggression.

“When recognizing social problems, aggression being one of those many problems (one of the more serious ones), you don’t engage in the tendency of deeming social problems non-problems at all because you understand you’re not aware of certain social contexts.”

We don’t “deem” anything but we are opposed to aggresion. We believe aggression is always unjustified. This does not mean we think there are no other social problems. What you are doing here is exactly what conservaives do when they say they aer against violence but it’s just one of many values, etc. — Check out this post and y’ll see wha I mean http://www.libertarianstandard.com/2012/01/17/the-disingenuous-liberty-isnt-the-only-value-attack-by-liberals-and-conservatives-on-libertarianism/

“The NAP, on the other hand, is about removing all care about context and focusing on one principle, or axiom in some cases, about aggression.”

No. You are wrong. You are squirming and evading, trying to avoid naming the truth: that you are sometimes willing to condone or commit aggression. If you are, go ahead and say it. If not, then you are identical with libertarians.

Let’s take a simpler exapmle. Presumably you oppose the torture and murder of children. Right? For whatever reason. You think that it is unjustified. It is wrong. It should not be engaged in. Saying this is not “simplistic” or “out of context”–it is just what you believe. Likewise libertarians feel the same about aggression: we basically believe that humans ought to live in society, in cooperation, as much as possible; that when there is a possibility of physically, violent conflict, this is always because of the fundmanetal fact of scarcity: their intended use of some scarce resources, whether others’ bodies or other reosurces, conflict. We believe that to avoid the problem of violent conflict people ought to abide by a set of property rules that allocate particular owners of all such contestable resources. And we believe that the owner should be the person himself, in the case of bodies; and in the case of previously unowned resources, it ought to be the first one to start using it, or someone to whom he has contractually transferred it.

Now the only way you can disagree with this is to think someone other than A ought to own his body–i.e. slavery. Or that someone other than the original homesteader of a resource should have it–that is, A homesteads property X and later on, some latecomer B gets to take X from A, to become its new owner. We call this theft.

Why would you be in favor of slavery or theft?

“Considering that libertarianism is all about people freeing themselves and taking *self-responsibility*, conveying an ethic that creates some philosophical and practical dependency of this type is a dangerous way of thinking in my opinion.”

It’s not “about” this. It’s not “about” anything–it’s not a novel with a plot. LIbertarianism is a political philosophy with a particular view of how property rights should be allocated. Every political philosophy has some view of property rights. It’s just that all the non-libertarian ones believe in some form of slavery or theft.

“I think this stems from the Austrians means of deriving ethics from a system of rights, “natural” rights usually, rather than derive a system of rights from their larger theory of ethics.”

Has nothing to do with it.

I suggest you read my What It Means to be an Anarcho-Capitalist. stephankinsella.com/publications

Share
{ 8 comments }

Epstein: Does the Second Amendment Apply to Washington, D.C.?

Back in 2008 I pointed out some problems with resorting to the courts of the central state to vindicate our rights, in the context of the Heller gun rights case. I argued that the Bill of Rights limits the power of the federal government. It was certainly not meant not empower the federal government via the courts or Congress to strike down state laws. For example at the time the Bill of Rights was ratified (1791), several states had an established religion. (See my post State and Religion.) Obviously the prohibitions on state involvement in religion in the First Amendment were limits on federal not state power.

The same is true for the Second Amendment. I have never believed the prefatory clause about militias was a limit on this limitation on federal power. In my view a federal court should refuse to enforce a federal law restricting gun rights, since there is no enumerated power granted to Congress to enact such a general, national law. And as a backstop, the Second Amendment further prohibits such federal legislation. But does it limit the states? No.

I had problems with some aspects of the Heller case, in which the Supreme Court struck down a Washington D.C. gun law based on the Second Amendment. (See To Hell with HellerHeller gives local governments “space within which to limit gun ownership”; The Great Gun Decision: Dissent; Gun Haters Happy with Heller; and other posts.) Not that I was that upset with it. I would have probably voted to strike it down too, on libertarian grounds (see my post Higher Law). And thus I praised Heller plaintiff Tom Palmer for fighting against unlibertarian laws (Tom Palmer’s Fight for the Right to Bear Arms).

Scholar Kevin Gutzman had another interesting critique of Heller: he argued that not only does the Bill of Rights not apply to the States, but it did not even apply to Washington, D.C. itself, as a sort of “pseudo-state”–a special jurisdiction under federal control that operates somewhat like a state. I noted this intriguing argument in one of my posts criticizing Heller, The Great Gun Decision: Dissent, where I wrote:

Second, as Kevin Gutzman notes, the Bill of Rights provides limits on the power of the federal government–not states, and not DC. So, as with the majority in the Kelo case, the dissent would have had the right result for the wrong reasons. In Heller, the majority is correct in how they construe the meaning of the Second Amendment; the liberals are blatantly, dishonestly wrong. But both sides incorrectly believe that the Bill of Rights applies to DC. 1

Heller plaintiff Tom Palmer roundly condemned Gutzman’s argument as “just plain dumb.” And libertarian centralist and Lincoln idolator Tim Sandefur attacked both me and Gutzman, in a post entitled “Stephan Kinsella’s idiocy reaches new lows.”

What is interesting is esteemed libertarian and Cato scholar Richard Epstein has recently opined that the Second Amendment does not apply to Washington, D.C. In The Libertarian Gun Fallacy, Professor Epstein writes “the Second Amendment imposes no limitations on the states … Washington D.C. [is] the one place where the amendment has no application whatsoever.” (See also Damon Root on Libertarians, Guns, and Federalism.)

Hmm.

  1. See also my post The Unique American Federal Government.[]
Share
{ 2 comments }

My Amazon Author Page

Is up!

Share
{ 1 comment }

Note: An updated and revised version of this article is included as Chapter 21 of Legal Foundations of a Free Society (Houston, Texas: Papinian Press, 2023).

***

Below is a lightly edited text version of “Taking the Ninth Amendment Seriously: A Review of Calvin R. Massey’s Silent Rights: The Ninth Amendment and the Constitution’s Unenumerated Rights [1995],” Hastings Const. L.Q. 24, no. 3 (Spring 1997): 757–84.

Update:


“may have found it. p. vii of Barnett’s foreword in vol. 1, “The essays raise both historical and philosophical questions: How should we use history in interpreting the Constitution? Which body of history should we use? Given that many of the Framers believed in natural rights, should those principles inform our constitutional adjudication, as Bennett B. Patterson argues?” [nsk note: FIX LATER] see also pp. 32-34 in vol. 2, of Barnett’s chapter. See also other quotes in this ChatGPT conversation e.g. Restoring the Lost Constitution p. 78;

and p. 34 of vol. 1:

The adoption of the Ninth Amendment forces those who reject the reality of such rights, but who seek to interpret the Constitution according to either original intent or original meaning, to hypothesize on the content of this expanded list. Without such an attempt, the scheme of delegated powers and reserved rights becomes fundamentally different from the one that the Framers promised and the people involved in the ratification process agreed on. Modern philosophical skepticism about rights is simply beside the point. Just as contract law seeks to enforce the “benefit of the bargain” as agreed to, enforcing the Constitution as enacted would seem to require protection of the retained rights and liberties of the people assumed by the Ninth Amendment in the same manner as we would if we believed these rights and liberties to be “real. From the perspective of either original intent or original meaning, ignoring the Ninth Amendment because it does not comport with modern moral philosophy is (to shift the metaphor) a form of constitutional bait and switch.

Taking the Ninth Amendment Seriously

Review of Calvin R. Massey, Silent Rights: The Ninth Amendment and the Constitution’s Unenumerated Rights (Philadelphia: Temple University Press, 1995)

By N. Stephan Kinsella[1]

Abstract:  In this review, Mr. Kinsella details and critiques Calvin R. Massey’s recent book on the Ninth Amendment.  Massey points out that many modern constitutional theorists hold that the Ninth Amendment cannot be read as a source of rights that can be used to strike down legislation, but only as a rule of construction that prevents construing the Bill of Rights to imply the existence of federal powers beyond those enumerated.  However, Massey argues, because of the modern expansion of federal powers and current constitutional jurisprudence, it is now “impossible” to achieve the amendment’s original function of limiting the implied powers of the federal government.  Massey suggests that, under a theory of “constitutional cy pres,” the original government-limiting purpose of the Ninth Amendment can nevertheless be achieved if it is read as a source of unenumerated rights that can be used to trump legislation.  Massey goes on to argue that these unenumerated rights include both natural rights and positive rights protected in state constitutions.

Kinsella argues that Massey’s theory has little constitutional support, and that this theory would undermine the principle of federalism, itself one of the original purposes of the Constitution.  Kinsella concludes by suggesting better approaches to constitutional interpretation or reform, such as the approaches of Randy Barnett and Marshall DeRosa. [continue reading…]

Share
{ 2 comments }

Three Great Practical Things in my Life

I’m not talking about personal matters like getting married or having a child or having great parents. Or, intellectually, on the level of reading Mises or Hoppe or Rothbard (or meeting the latter two, for that matter). But three great practical things that stand out that have made big differences for me:

Share
{ 0 comments }

Kinsella Podcast

I’ve started a podcast on HuffDuffer (RSS; Subscribe in iTunes), which I’ll use for my past and upcoming media, and for occasional audio files by other speakers I find interesting.

Share
{ 0 comments }

Favorite Podcast Bumper Music

I listen to a lot of podcasts and am very impressed by some of the intro/theme music (I think it’s sometimes called bumper music) they came up with. It’s such an incredible skill to me. Hear are my favorite ones, in descending order:

  1. KERA Think. Just love it. Soothing and pleasant, just the right length. Wow. (It’s also one of my favorite podcasts.) Recent episode; listen at 0 to 10 seconds; and the transition at 14:02 to 14:50;
  2. Slate podcasts, e.g. the Culture Gabfest. Recent episode;
  3. Cato’s daily podcast. Recent episode;
  4. Free Talk Live’s varied metal openings (example);
  5. The awesome opening to Sex, Lies, and Anarchy, clips from the uber-cool song Shiny Toy Guns.
Share
{ 1 comment }

Steve Mendelsohn: The God of Death and the Death of God

My friend and former patent lawyer colleague Steve Mendelsohn sent me the essay below (Steve doesn’t have his own blog, so this is posted here with his permission). One of his other pieces is the funny “Confessions of a Law School Asshole,” published when he was a law student at U. Penn in The Penn Law Forum (Sept. 26, 1990). Feel free to send Steve comments at [email protected].

***

The God of Death and the Death of God

by Steve Mendelsohn

[email protected]

From almost my earliest childhood memories, I remember being terrified of death.  I remember crying out to my dad from the dark of my bedroom as a 7 or 8 year old, unable to sleep from my fear of death.  “Dad,” I’d wail, “what happens when you die.”  “Your soul goes into a new baby,” he’d reassure me.

            But that wasn’t reassuring.  That wasn’t reassuring at all.  What good is that to me if my soul goes into a new baby?  I don’t remember who I was before that person’s soul came into me when I was born.  So, in the same way, my consciousness would not continue after I die and my soul goes into some other new baby.

            What good was my dad’s version of reincarnation if your consciousness doesn’t continue to your next incarnation?  And where the hell did my dad come up with reincarnation anyway?  Jews don’t believe in reincarnation.  Judaism isn’t sure what Jews should believe in, but it sure isn’t reincarnation. [continue reading…]

Share
{ 8 comments }

My Epitaph

My parents’ recent selection of their tombstones got me ta thinkin’. I think the epitaph I’d like would be: Father, Husband, Libertarian.

Share
{ 3 comments }

Guy Kedem sent me a link to his article Dialogical Libertarianism: Ultimate Foundation of Ethics, which is a Hebrew-language discussion of Hoppe’s argumentation ethics and my estoppel theory of libertarian rights.

For more on argumentation ethics, see my “Argumentation Ethics and Liberty: A Concise Guide,” Mises Daily (May 27, 2011) (includes “Discourse Ethics and Liberty: A Skeletal Ebook”). For more on estoppel, see “Punishment and Proportionality: The Estoppel Approach,” Journal of Libertarian Studies 12:1 (Spring 1996): 51. Both approaches, and other, related theories, are discussed in my “New Rationalist Directions in Libertarian Rights Theory,” Journal of Libertarian Studies 12:2 (Fall 1996): 313-26.

Share
{ 0 comments }

Living a Life of Excellence and Liberty

From The Libertarian Standard, Dec. 5, 2011

My fellow TLS blogger Norman Horn’s recent speech, What you can do to promote liberty, called to mind some things I’ve blogged about before. In Nock and Leonard Read on “One Improved Unit” and the Power of Attraction, blogged previously here, I discussed the idea advocated by Albert Jay Nock and Leonard Read, that your primary task is to improve yourself–to strive for excellence in yourself. Then you become a bright light that attracts people; they see you are good, and successful, and worth emlating or listening to–so you win people over by the power of attraction. They come to you, and then you have more success spreading the ideas of liberty than if you go around being a boor. More detail, including excerpts from Nock and Read, are in that post.

[The Golden Age of America is Now]

The other post, previousyl blogged elsewhere, is reproduced in full here:

 Career Advice by North

Gary North delivered a wonderful lecture last month during Mises University 2009 (the same day I gave my own speech), “Calling and Career as an Austrian School Scholar” (a shorter version of this was in the LRC podcast 127. Gary North: Making a Difference, Making a Living, which is also excellent).  North talks calling and occupation. Calling is “the most important thing you can do with your life in which you are most difficult to replace.” Occupation is “how you put food on the table.” Occasionally they are the same, but often not; but there is no reason not to arrange your life so as to have both. He talks about how to combine them or at least have both in your life, and centers his talk around some examples, notably Burt Blumert and William Volker.

Also see Paul Graham’s “What You’ll Wish You’d Known (“I wrote this talk for a high school. I never actually gave it, because the school authorities vetoed the plan to invite me.”)

Update: See also Bastiat, from The Law:

“Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don’t you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough.”

Share
{ 0 comments }

Hoppe on the plight of newcomers in a fully owned world

Great passage that I’ve always liked from Hans-Hermann Hoppe’s The Economics and Ethics of Private Property, p. 417-18:

In fact, what strikes Conway as a counterintuitive implication of the homesteading ethic, and then leads him to reject it, can easily be interpreted quite differently. It is true, as Conway says, that this ethic would allow for the possibility of the entire world’s being homesteaded. What about newcomers in this situation who own nothing but their physical bodies? Cannot the homesteaders restrict access to their property for these newcomers and would this not be intolerable? I fail to see why. (Empirically, of course, the problem does not exist: if it were not for governments restricting access to unowned land, there would still be plenty of empty land around!) These newcomers normally come into existence somewhere as children born to parents who are owners or renters of land (if they came from Mars, and no one wanted them here, so what?; they assumed a risk in coming, and if they now have to return, tough luck!). If the parents do not provide for the newcomers, they are free to search the world over for employers, sellers, or charitable contributors, and a society ruled by the homesteading ethic would be, as Conway admits, the most prosperous one possible! If they still could not find anyone willing to employ, support, or trade with them, why not ask what’s wrong with them, instead of Conway’s feeling sorry for them? Apparently they must be intolerably unpleasant fellows and should shape up, or they deserve no other treatment. Such, in fact, would be my own intuitive reaction.

I seem to recall Rothbard saying something similar, something to the effect that in a free society we could of course expect the misfortunate and poor to receive charity from others, unless they were so unpleasant that they could find no one who could help them, in which case this is not the fault of the free market … anyone remember this?

[TLS]

Share
{ 7 comments }

© 2012-2025 StephanKinsella.com CC0 To the extent possible under law, Stephan Kinsella has waived all copyright and related or neighboring rights to material on this Site, unless indicated otherwise. In the event the CC0 license is unenforceable a  Creative Commons License Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 License is hereby granted.

-- Copyright notice by Blog Copyright